Most liked posts in thread: Legal-Charging-Police Bail-Under Investigation

Do you seriously believe that this delay time is due to police preference? It's not the fault of the police that their resources to investigate this type of alleged crime have been slashed to the bone in the name of austerity. The same is true for the CPS, who are likely to make the decision whether to prosecute, not the police.

The wait time in Robinson's case is not exceptional, it is the current norm, as @Allotment Bantam has pointed out above.
I have personal knowledge of another case that took 26 months from initial police involvement to an actual charge, due to lack of resources, and it is likely to be several further months before it gets to court.

So don't hold your breath for a return any time soon.

 

There are almost too many things wrong with this post to list. But here's a start:
1. Policing public events, of many types is, and always has been, a core police activity. There would very soon be complaints if they stopped doing it and people got hurt, traffic wasn't redirected etc.
Presumably you would just like them to stop policing the particular events that you don't personally approve of.

2. Police esorting neo-Nazi thugs around, chanting racist crap in support of white supremacist arseholes like Stephen Yaxley-Lennon because it's a 'legitimate political rally' is somehow ok, eh? Yet escorting those (of various faiths and skin colours) exercising their legitimate right to demonstrate an opposing political view is somehow not ok? Great logic there bud.

3. Policing public order issues is a relatively small element of police time and resources and cutting down on it would make little or no difference to their capability to investigate sexual crimes. Particularly since those investigating such crimes are specially trained CID officers who take no part in uniformed public order policing. Reduction in public order policing would be very unlikely to result in more resources going to specialist CID units. I'm sure you really know this, but it doesn't fit your narrative to acknowledge it.

4. Hate crime is only petty if you are not a victim of it. If you were having your life made a misery because of your skin colour, religious beliefs, sexuality, disability etc then you wouldn't think it was petty. In my professional life I've seen people self harm, suffer serious mental health problems, be forced to move home several times and even kill themselves because of hate crime persecution. As straight white western males we don't have to contend with such issues, but others do and it can wreck their lives. So, to suggest that police should stop investigating hate crime shows a pretty breathtaking lack of empathy for those who are often least able to defend themselves.

 

The point is that the club almost certainly don't know what's happening either.
He's being investigated for a possible criminal act. Only the police and the CPS know whether that is likely to lead to an actual charge and, for reasons of confidentiality, they aren't saying.
So the situation remains exactly as it has done for the last year. So what can the club make a statement about that would add anything useful to what we already know?

 

There are over 1,000 in West Yorkshire alone.
https://www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk/news/crime/more-than-1-000-suspects-waiting-over-a-year-for-west-yorkshire-police-to-finish-their-cases-1-9890550

 

I wouldn’t thought any club would want him in his current position.

 

Yes, I accept that the law change may have contributed to an unacceptable situation, leaving people in limbo for an indefinite period.
But you said that the police prefer to keep people hanging on with no recourse to law. That is nonsense. Regardless of the legal framework, the primary reason that long delays occur is because swingeing cuts have left them with insufficient resources to complete investigations promptly and then process the necessary paperwork. And when they have eventually done that the file sits at the bottom of a bulging CPS in-tray, waiting many more months for a decision to be made about whether to take it to court or not.
The police and CPS don't prefer this situation - they hate it. They'd much rather have sufficient resources to do their jobs properly. But ten years of cuts has made that impossible.

 

Thank you AB, I wasn’t aware the law had changed on this. A law that was intended to speed things up, has had the opposite effect. Laws made without backing them up with resources is pointless.

This in my view is a serious infringement of your human rights, and no doubt will be challenged in the courts.

 

I think your analysis of why the Police don’t have time is far too simplistic. The investigation of sexual crimes requires specialist police who require extensive training and preferable with experience. Plus I know for a fact they cannot recruit Police into the specialist work and tbh who can blame them. Constant stress, not enough time to do the job properly oh and if they make a mistake disciplinary action await.

There are no easy answers on this. As a society if we want these types of crime to be given a rigorous investigation in a timely manner, we need to invest hard cash into the Police. We also need to show some respect to Police and Social Workers who are given this type of work. Form a queue for those who would like to sit looking at disgusting child pornography to determine what category they must charge the alleged perpetrators. Or have to listen to a violent rape victim. Or listen to child disclosing sexual abuse. The unpleasant list goes on, and these are public servants who work in the background trying to safeguard children and vulnerable ppl.

I think the current system due to lack of resources is a breach of ppls basic human rights to have their investigation completed in a timely manner.

 

1. I disagree. I'm 63 and my eyes tell me that there has always been a significant police presence at many public events. I don't see a massive increase in numbers.
What I do see is a massive decrease in the number of police deployed every Saturday and many weekday evenings to keep rival football supporters apart. The numbers utilised today are a tiny fraction of those deployed in the football hooligan heyday of the 1970s. I'm convinced that that reduction alone more than makes up for any increases at other events.

2. Nope, not buying this. Tommy Robinson is a neo fascist with a long history of membership and leading ultra right wing organisations, some of which are now quite rightly banned. He is a very skilled media manipulator. He dresses his events up as family friendly as a cover, but their entire purpose is to incite hatred of immigrants, particularly Muslims. He knows full well that holding public rallies in heavily Asian areas like Oldham is a red rag to a bull to local Muslim youth. It's deliberate provocation, and he does it precisely to get an aggressive reaction. Of course, it works like a charm. It's very skilfully planned and executed with the sole intention of putting stuff online in which he plays the victim and further justifies his anti-Muslim message.

3. I don't know that there are many coppers queuing up to to work in specialist sexual crime units. It's grim work that can take a heavy toll on those doing it. Most of the cops I worked with when I was involved in doing Mental Health Act Assessments wouldn't have wanted to touch that sort of work with a barge pole.
'Sorting out crap like domestics'. As someone who has had plenty of experience helping women escape from violent male partners I can assure you that domestic abuse policing isn't 'crap', it's highly necessary. Yes, some of it is low level arguments between two drunken partners but an awful lot isn't. You are minimising a very real problem. We actually need more resources put into policing domestic abuse, not fewer.

4. I accept your admonishment. I should have said 'comparitively few straight white western males are victims of hate crimes'. Of course some do, particularly the groups you mention, plus those with mental health problems or learning disabilities. But, by comparison with minority groups, it's far less common.
It's neither racist nor sexist to acknowledge that white males are the least persecuted or discriminated-against group in our society; it's a blindingly obvious fact.

I'm curious to know which of that list of hate crimes you believe is trivial or should not be thus classified. The police do use their common sense when applying this stuff, you know. Of course damage to a vehicle or throwing rubbish into a garden isn't hate crime per se, but it can be if it's done repeatedly and/or with the intention of persecuting/intimidating people because of their perceived difference. That list contains examples of what can be classed as hate crime. It doesn't mean that they always are - context is everything.

 

There are time limits if he is on bail, but if he released under investigation (RUI) then there are absolutely no limits

 

Fair enough - thanks for sharing

 

This discussion has been going on under the wrong thread.

@Dratsab taf when you are ‘under investigation’ you are in my view ‘cut adrift’ from the legal system. If he had been charged, he would be before the courts and under regular review, and the judge would try and make sure there was appropriate progress. If he was on Police bail, they would have to charge within 28 days or finish the investigation. Unfortunately, the Police and associated back up services, like digital analysis is massively underfunded and therefore in trying to continue to bring justice to victims they are having to resort to putting people under investigation where there is no outside monitoring. I am very surprised this has not been challenged in court.

Apparently the law was changed in trying to speed up the process it has made matters worse. How, a legislator can bring a law in to speed up the process and systematically cut resources to Police and Justice system is beyond me.

 

Robinson’s Instagram gives the impression he’s received some bad news today.

Could he have been charged?

 

“A big time low” - must be pretty significant to make him lower than he already is.

 

I thought the same @Carts #CTID.

 

If he was on bail or had been he would have either been charged or released by now. He must have been released under investigation which mean that at the time they didn’t have enough evidence to make a charging decision but thought some more could come to light after further investigation.

 

Major difference is with bail there are strict time limits, with RUI it can go forever

 

One guy was in the news he has been RUI for over 5 years now and still awaiting a decision, It is now worse than a North Korean police state,