George Floyd copper

Everybody in this country recieves the same basic education , evreybody without exception recieves the same funding . Many more white pupils are in failing schools , perhaps a closer look at exam results in Bradford will show you that the majority of BAME students achieve above average pass rates compared to the white indigenous students .

 

Think everyone’s over-reacting a little to this. The content is mildly problematic, and the vendor has decided to remove it. Whether you personally agree that it’s problematic or not isn’t really important.

Nobody is forcing them to pull it down, these vendors switch content out all the time based on a huge variety of factors. We don’t, as a public, own it - and it’s not really our call to make.

If it’s that important to you, buy the DVD, literally nobody is stopping you.

 

Apart from the one absolutely massive exception of those who can afford to pay for a better education

 

The education system is fair to all , the oportunities available to all the population have never been so good .

 

That's a class/poverty issue, not a race one.

 

I was going to question your comment with regards " disadvantaged in health services" yes it has been stated the Covid-19 virus is disproportionate with regards colour, but I suggest to use it as " disadvantaged in health services" is nonsense, I hope your not suggesting when black people go into hospital with Covid-19 they aren't given the same health care as any other coloured patient, that's not the case and you know it.
Your comment with Education, Asian pupils out perform both black and white pupils, not sure of the break down of the Asian numbers but I would assume Asian includes Chinese, Pakistani, Bangladesh, Indian, are suggesting with regards education generally blacks don't achieve because they don't get the same education as children of other ethnic backgrounds.

 

Do you mean like Diane Abbott, look how her son has turned out with a private education, she must be really proud of her investment.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7842415/Diane-Abbotts-privately-educated-son-28-charged-11-new-offences.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8246919/The-violent-rampage-Diane-Abbotts-diplomat-son-James-Abbott-Thompson.html

 

Yes, what about it?

 

I have asked my Irish wife today whether she objects to 'Irish' jokes' being told, whether in her company or not, she just laughed and said she laughs and finds them just as funny as the rest of us do. Phew, had an awful feeling she has thought of me has been racist these passed 35 years

 

I agree, although the two should be being treated in a way more related manner than they currently are being. My point is consistent that we should be making life better for everyone. That includes those of all races, and this is my biggest criticism of the left wing at the moment.

It’s was more an important corrective to the post that undermined the rest of it.

 

It's another interesting angle. Yorkshire and Scottish people are jokingly referred to as tight which is fine and the basis of many a joke. I had a colleague who used to joke about Jews being tight and that's a no go!

 

I agree. One of the problems though, is that if you start to look at the links between poverty, race and social challenges, you also have to look at culture and the responsibilities that lie with those cultures and sub-cultures to drive improvement. No one seems to have any appetite whatsoever to do that when it comes to the BLM movement. Everything has been racialized and done so in a matter whereby the victim/blame narrative is well and truly set.

 

Sure. But it that sense, it depends on which cultures and responsibilities. We’re responsible, as a nation, to accommodate all cultures of its citizens as far as obviously practical, or it should be. This is where I’d say that the white population shouldn’t have a cultural monopoly on the country at large.

So we’ve got work to do to examine that properly, to work out where that approach is falling short (as it clearly is). It’s obviously not the case that simply being black makes you in any way more likely to fall into poverty and crime, nor is it a choice. So I feel there’s clearly some work to do - possibly on both sides, but the first moves clearly need to be initiated by the state.

 

''The white population shouldn't have a cultural monopoly on the country at large''

Seems a bit of a crazy statement to me unless I've misunderstood it?

 

Just pointing out that because you have money and can afford to give your children private education it does not mean they are any better than the next child, yes he has many qualifications but it seems he lacks a fundamental one with regards respect, certainly for his mother, Diane Abbott the voice of equal opportunities, the Labour MP who has spoken out against private education many times.

 

Its a shame that the great progress made in the last 20 years seems to be being lost in this issue at the minute. On the sentence in bold, I think we generally do a very good job of this, more so than the vast majority of countries. We're one of the most tolerant, balanced and equal countries in the world. Do prejudices still exist? Sure, they always will. In every country and against every demographic you care to name. And we should do what we can to minimize those prejudices further. That's very different from the idea that we're a fundamentally, systemically racist country.

And on the question of 'which cultures', given that the most vocal narrative at the minute is 'black oppression', then I think a balanced conversation would include the cultural and sub-cultural factors that are fundamental components of where black communities are most vulnerable. Maybe its me, but my general approach on anything that I feel aggrieved by is an examination of what I can do directly to better my situation. To take personal responsibility. And then within my family, a collective responsibility. And I don't assume that any negative encounter I have with the state is based on my race, or gender, or sexuality. I'd argue that there are cultural issues within 'the black community' that are pivotal to the debate. Issues that are entirely agnostic of racial oppression. For example, and to your point - does having black skin make someone more likely to fall into poverty and crime? In and of itself, no. Of course it doesn't. But the fact is that both here and the US, rates of crime and poverty are higher in black communities. You're more likely to have violent encounters with the police if you're more likely to commit violent crime. You're more likely to commit violent crime if you're more likely to commit crime generally and live in violent surroundings. You're more likely to commit crime and live in violent surroundings if you're growing up in poverty and in single parent families - poverty and single parent families are an interwoven mix. And both here and in the US, the rate of single parent families is around 2.5-3 times higher in black than white communities. Are there other factors that cause poverty? Of course, but they apply across the board. Single parenthood is much less stigmatized than it was but the data is pretty clear - kids growing up in single parent families are less likely to succeed in school, more likely to suffer mental health and development issues and more likely to turn to crime. I can't think of any reasonable argument as to why 'systemic racism' has anything to do with why black kids are much more likely to grow up in broken homes than white kids. And it perpetuates the whole poverty/crime cycle, generation by generation.

 

There is another element in family life, The Asians believe in strong family and actively encourage and support the children to do well in education and in studying for a career, Middle class white families do the same and some lower class who understand the value of education, Unfortunately the black community have less stable family lives many with only one parent at home and as such do not give the support needed in a lot of cases, This is reflected in results in that Asian students outperform white who outperform black, If the black population want equality it is in there own hands to achieve it

 

https://bantamtalk.com/index.php?threads/george-floyd-copper.3923/page-38#post-362213

 

I won’t kneel with the masses,
I won’t be told my fate,
By people who hijack tragedy,
To perpetuate their hate.
Don’t you shout Black Lives Matter,
Whilst running through the streets,
When your people are burning Foot Locker,
Stealing Nike for their feet.
Don’t dance on The Cenotaph,
Like it’s Carnival or Mardi Gras,
That sacred granite edifice,
Marks people who died in war.
How dare you besiege Number 10,
This isn’t even our fight,
If you want to go and protest,
Get a 4,000 mile flight.
Social distancing flouted,
Police punched in the face,
Missiles hurled at Downing Street.,
This isn’t about race.
It’s rent-a-mob and anarchists,
Versus police led by lambs,
They just stand there and take it,
Lefty Cressida tied their hands.
Meanwhile America’s burning,
It’s a tragedy we all agree,
That George Floyd lost his life,
For all the world to see.
Justice must take its course,
The cop has lost his job,
Now he faces twelve good and true,
Not a braying mob.
So Monday I won’t be kneeling,
I won’t even bow my head,
Because someone I don’t even know,
Has wound up dead.
An armed robber and a felon,
In and out of jail,
As a model citizen,
He was a total fail.
I’ll weep for whom I choose to,
I’ll say where and when,
Not because a lifelong offender,
Bought it in the end.
I don’t condone the officers,
They rightly face the wrath,
But ask me to kneel for a criminal?
Don’t make me laugh.
You can keep your lefty rhetoric,
Your dismantling of our state,
It’s BLM not Middle England,
That’s peddling the hate.

 

I think our respective viewpoints are actually very similar, they just manifest differently.

At the end of the day, I think you can boil that right down to whether you believe that the burden of responsibility lies with the individual, society or the state. I think most rational people would argue that it’s a mixture of the three, but it’s case of where the balance lies.

And, to be perfectly honest, there’s probably not a ‘correct’ answer to that. It’s almost a matter of philosophy at the end of the day.