George Floyd copper

I agree. And whilst its easy to infer, its not an absolute that what he did was racially motivated. Maybe he’s just a thug that saw a chance to throw his weight around? He has a history of complaints against him, so that may be key in building a view of whether he’s used unreasonable force against other races arbitrarily or whether there’s a pattern.

 

so it wasn’t against the person that did it?

 

Bronco, I think you're comparing apples and oranges. Lee Rigby was murdered by a group that we all agree (or 99% of us) are awful humans. There are several memorials etc.
George Floyd was murdered by a group that we believe are there to protect us.

 

The UK BLM are still using Mark Duggan as an example, as awful as it was, he died nearly 10 years ago. The UK seems to have a decent track record when it comes to not killing its citizens.

People at home are using a legitimate USA protest it as an excuse to riot and cause trouble.

I really don't think you can compare the USA with the UK on this matter.

 

Fair point, but that group have a tremendously difficult job which often requires force. When that force is excessive and leads to injury or death, justice should prevail. Justice hasn’t a chance to play out yet. There will never, ever be a way to completely eradicate this type of incident, but perhaps there are ways to reform police governance and discipline to reduce incidents like this.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52890363

Different ways to look at the data, which doesn’t adjust for the proportion of crime committed by race. When you do that, the figures are pretty much in line with what would be expected. I.e. the rate of black deaths in police custody is 8% compared to a population coverage of 3%. But crime stats show that violent crime and murder has about the same disproportionate ratio. One comment of note though:

‘So, over the last 10 years, a white individual who has been arrested was about 25% more likely to die in custody than a black individual who had been arrested.’

 

For 2nd degree murder they have to prove that the cops intention was to murder, imagine if they can't....!!

 

I don't condone looting or violence but there comes a point when taking a knee and other peaceful protests is recognised as very symbolic bit actually useless because it changes nothing. There's a famous quote from a film, I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore. Action is required. It's all random violence and looting in some areas because people are angry, they don't know what else to do. They want some control and this is it. It needs to be targeted, tactical, non-violent non-compliance that forces change. That might be withdrawing labour, blockades, refusal to pay taxes or rents etc. There's lots of ways to do it but at the moment it's an expulsion of pent up anger and probably added to the mix are a few chancers who fancy a free pair of Nikes or a TV.

 

Yes of course the two incidents were not like for like, I believe there may not have been the same outcry because of the way it would have interpreted mass gatherings with regards that situation.
It was a terrorist attack quite different as you point out to the George Floyd incedent, and once terrorism is mentioned any protests could/would have been labelled racist, because these two were Islamic extremists.

 

There are very rarely protests against terrorist attacks, to be honest I can not remember one. They are usually memorials for the dead.

I don’t think that is due to racism but more who/what are you protesting about? How many people would support the terrorists, so what are you hoping to change by protesting?

 

And the parents of those kids probably speak that way at home...and these kids will probably speak like that to their kids...and somehow that cycle has to be broken. Education is the way out, but the timescale will probably be on a generational level.

It may well be too late to get through to the parents that there is a better way to behave -- and who is there who could get the message through in any case? -- which leaves the kids. But all the dedication and efforts of the teachers may still get cancelled out by the behaviours of the kids' elders. You'd just have to hope that at least some will get the message.

Mixing socially with all types of people would be another way out. I'm reminded, very imperfectly I might add, of an anecdote I once read involving either the Undertones, or their fans, and a club in Derry that was just about the only place where Catholics and Protestants came together. Kids from each side went for the music, got mixed up with each other, and eventually each side ended up realising that the other side were humans too, and not so bad after all!

RCB

 

The way I read the article its a tribute to Lee Rigby which took place during the Manchester day parade. Not a protest against who had done the crime.

 

Surely the two go hand in hand?

It shows we remember him and are against those that killed him

 

I would think the only way to know whether it was against them is if there was chanting / speeches mentioning the murderers or just people carrying photo's of Lee Rigby and taking part in the parade which would be happening whether this had happened or not.

 

Putting aside the crass post. No one’s stopping you protesting.

 

An example of how I think the identity politics movement may undo the progress that has been made on racial prejudice over the years.

In my company, we have an internal communications forum. One of the channels is reserved for Diversity and Inclusion, which is intended to be for inclusion within the workplace rather than a debate on wider social issues in the public domain. Nevertheless its veered into the same topic of discussion as this thread. Thankfully its all been done on a respectful basis and a wide range of views have been shared. But a comment from a black employee give me a bit of concern. With the best of intentions, she's encouraged that 'everyone can help by checking in on their black friends and colleagues to make sure they're ok given the events around George Floyds death'.

I have a real problem with this. For years, the principle of racial equality is that the colour of a persons skin DOESN'T define them, that everyone is an individual in their own right. But now it does? It's appropriate to assume that a black man or woman several thousands of miles away, in a different country and likely with very different personal circumstances, automatically feels a reaction to a killing in the US because they share the same colour of skin? Couldn't that cause real offence? Growing up in the 80s and 90s, a common criticism of anyone making a judgement on anyone based on race was 'we're all the same to you are we?'.

And where does that stop? If a black man in the US kills a police officer - or anyone else - should I also check in and reassure that they shouldn't feel any sense of shame? Its a slippery, slippery slope and the whole idea of identity politics creates more division, not less.

 

Just serial protesters who love to protest against something, If peaceful they serve a purpose but it is easy to spot the agitators urging more action and these are more dangerous.

 

What this officer did makes him deserving of what he is going to get. However this canonisation of George Floyd is over the top he spent five years in jail for armed robbery and assault he allegedly had just committed another crime and if you look at the whole video he was resisting arrest and had to be dragged out the car.
As I say No way does it excuse what happened

 

It is a bad move to change it to second degree as you have to prove intent to kill, It increases the chance of him been acquitted, 3rd degree was the correct charge and one questions the intent behind moving it to 2nd degree

 

I don't question the intent at all. It's to placate the mass movement of protests and try to diffuse an increasingly inflammatory situation. I think you're right though - proving intent to kill through the use of a common restraint technique on a man who'd originally resisted arrest may be difficult.

The other complication in proving it to be a racially motivated, white on black crime, may be the inclusion of the 3 other officers - one of which looks to be of Asian ethnicity and 1 of whom looks to be mixed race (I may be wrong on that one, just going by skin tone on a mugshot photo).

Can you imagine the reaction if there's an acquittal? Regardless of actual guilt, I'm not sure how they approach ensuring there's a fair trial.