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Dublin Riots

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Idlebantam, Nov 23, 2023.

  1. Bronco

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    I wonder if the Dutch people will be classed as racist to for voting in right wing Prime Minister Geert Wilders, who promised to sort their immigration problem out.
     
  2. Rogered Tart

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    The cop out option is to label anyone voting for the likes of Wilders as right wing or racist instead of debating intelligently and asking why people voted that way. Problem is its easier to throw the label around than it is to engage in sensible debate as @Faithful Bantam@Faithful Bantam was alluding to. The example has even been used on here today where the 'R' word has been used against people who think the policy of Poland and Hungary regarding immigration has merit. That all encompassing word again eh? Now used to kill debate stone dead.
     
  3. Idlebantam

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    Spot on that mate
     
    Bronco and Rogered Tart like this.
  4. Bronco

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    The numbers that were recently quoted can't be allowed to continue, you rightly point out much of the infrastructure in the UK is under massive pressure, hospitals, schools the NHS the last time I spoke face to face with a doctor from my medical practise was last February then being put on a waiting list to have both my hips replaced, my surgeon told me both hips should have been removed 12 to 18 months earlier, maybe if I had seen a doctor they would have had me in a waiting list instead of prescribing me more powerful drugs hoping my pain would go away, what was ironic the doctor who I eventually saw diagnosed my problem within minutes of me laying on the couch.
    Some where common sense has to prevail there has to be a decision taken by the next government to reduce the present situation, now if that is classed as racist then the world's gone mad.
    We have our own people who for what ever reason find themselves with no home to go to no bed to sleep in, food banks giving food away to those in need yet we can spend millions finding accomodation food and money to give to these people who have found enough money to illegally enter the UK, we really do need to put our own house in order first.
     
    #84 Bronco, Dec 1, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2023
  5. NorthernMonkey

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    Cheers Rog, I'll make sure I do.
     
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  6. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    This is your issue though. You're not actually listening to what people are saying. You're working on a perception of what you think people are saying..

    Of course if th UK government then allows "too many" migrants in to the extent that they ghettoize areas, affect the labour market (either by being unwilling to work or by driving cheap labour......both can be true) or causing divisions in society them the second part of my quoted sentence is no longer true.

    It's why the numbers are only part of the issue....the behaviour and effects (and even perceptions) are actually important. You could allow 1m hard working, functional, societal accepting immigrants into the country to a net benefit whereas 50,000 with the intent to work in the black market or "sponge" would rightly be met with concern. It's why the latest net migration figures haven't caused the fuss that they could have done with the normal man in the street.
     
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  7. Offcomedun

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    Dave, like many other people, you’re confusing the ECHR - European Convention on Human Rights, which is a set of legal principles (that was mostly compiled by the UK) - with the European Court of Human Rights, which is a physical judicial body. We could withdraw from the jurisdiction of the European Court, but still adhere to the principles of the ECHR, which is enshrined in our own Human Rights Act but also affects the workings of a huge chunk of our other laws.

    The right of the Tory Party are currently lobbying to remove us from the EHCR. That would significantly destabilise the Good Friday Agreement, which is heavily based on the ECHR, and cause much legal chaos across a whole range of other areas.
     
  8. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    What did I say about why things don't change? And yet you blame the government for the complexity and inefficiency of the legal system.

    Do you want the system processing these people changing or do you not?
     
  9. Bronco

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    This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 100%
     
  10. Offcomedun

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    The system worked fine before 2010 didn’t it? It’s more a question of insufficient civil servants and court time to process the applications promptly.
     
  11. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    Did it, i genuinely don't know? In what measurable way?
     
    #91 Aaron Baker, Dec 2, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2023
  12. Idlebantam

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    Can you say with a straight face that immigration will be better controlled under Labour.

    Labours idea of control is to encourage as many migrants as possible to flood our shores.
     
  13. Tony Wilkinson

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    From...'The Guardian' of all places....

     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
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  14. Rogered Tart

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    Problem is Idle, the mess we see now with country, whether it be immigration, NHS falling apart, local services cut to the bone have all come under years of Tory leadership. We are literally just a ship bouncing off one iceberg to another, a bridge without a captain. All this while taxes continue to rise. Now i'm no apologist for Labour, i think they have fundamental problems from within, too many individuals with vested interests that make them very hard to want to vote for.
    But in the years i have left on this wonderful planet, i'm not sure i could ever think of voting Conservative ever again, they are a busted flush, a party traditionally tough on things like crime and immigration yet have chosen to do nothing to fight these due to their own interests coming before the peoples wishes.
    The silent majority of tens of millions hold the key to power in this country, neither the Tories or Labour are fit to serve that majority. The decent people of this country deserve so much better.
     
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  15. Idlebantam

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    I agree to a certain extent.

    I have voted Conservative ever since I was old enough to vote and my first General election I was wooed by Maggie, oh for another strong leader such as she was by the way, but have to say the party, like the rest of politics at the moment, is a complete mess.

    That said, I can't say I would never vote for Conservative ever again. However, the party needs a reboot with strong leadership, but not sure where that will come from.
     
    Tony Wilkinson likes this.
  16. Rogered Tart

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    Now as i've stated before i don't vote (only once when i was 18 for the Tories) but for me the final straw was Johnson. An absolute joke of a human being, no substance to him whatsoever other than an ultra privileged upbringing him a career he had no right to ever be near. But then we have Corbyn, another tosser of the highest order who's never done a days graft in his life, another with the benefit of a privileged upbringing yet for some reason wants to preach to the working class. he has no idea whats its like to be working class. Arrrggghh i hate politics. Politicians even more so.
     
    Tony Wilkinson likes this.
  17. Offcomedun

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    The turnaround of asylum claims was much faster under Labour, before the Tories trashed the civil service and court system.
     
  18. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    Any stats?

    And that's definitely the cause not number of claims or people figuring out how to manipulate the systems (what to say in their claims, what defender work and delay the process, etc). Just a straightforward, single cause issue yep?
     
  19. Offcomedun

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    No, of course it’s not a single issue. But the moribund way that claims are being processed now is a major part of why people are staying in hotels etc far too long. And it feeds the numbers coming here. If people see others from their area returning soon after leaving it’s bound to deter some of them them from trying. Whereas, if they’re still here over a year after leaving it encourages more to try it.
    I did see some figures about claim turnaround times a while back. I haven’t just made it up. I’ll see if I can find them.
     
  20. Aaron Baker

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    It is quite ironic though that this is a thread about riots in Dublin and its an issue being experienced all around Europe at the moment but you think the major factor is the UK government. Doesn't seem to fit logically does it.
     
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