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Dublin Riots

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Idlebantam, Nov 23, 2023.

  1. Birky Bantam

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    I take it you don't like all of the immigrants keeping this country going whether that be in the NHS or social care as 2 examples that would fall to pieces without immigrants. Why is it that someone who leaves this country is called an "ex-pat" yet when someone that comes to this country is called an "immigrant". How about we focus on the government who waste the money and now want to take away rights of people and make themselves exempt from the laws.
     
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  2. Idlebantam

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    Read my post again, nowhere in it did I condone looting and rioting.

    Ciaran Kelly came to England to accept a job offer.

    The vast majority of migrants landing on our or Irelands shores dont have a job to go to. They come here expecting accommodation and money to be handed to them on a plate, whilst we see our own people sleeping rough, including war veterans.

    I'm sure Ciaran Kelly is funding his own accommodation and certainly not sponging off the state. So a very stupid comparison.

    My wife came to England from Ireland n 1976 and never claimed a penny in housing or benefits all her working life, other than family allowance for one child she had with me.
     
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  3. Rogered Tart

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    Controlled immigration is always welcome, what is not is a systematic overload of your country disguised under some bullshit lie like seeking asylum or refugee status. Its not the peoples fault, they are one of the biggest people trafficking movement ever seen into Europe.
     
  4. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    Figures from 2020 show migrant men are more likely to be employed than UK-born men (83% vs 78% in 2020), but among women, migrants are less likely to be in employment (69% vs 72%)
     
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  5. Bronco

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    Home Office officials have admitted they do not know the whereabouts of more than 17,000 asylum seekers who's claims have been discontinued, 17,000 you're taking the p1ss it might be closer doubling that figure.
     
  6. Offcomedun

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    This, of course, is a consequence of the government’s decimation of the legal system, so that asylum claims now take forever compared to how the system worked under Labour. Just one of many public necessities that have long ceased to function properly under the Tories.

    But so much outrage about small boats and asylum seekers. It’s bizarre. The asylum seeker numbers are a drop in the ocean compared to the record numbers of legal immigrants coming here on work visas. That’s entirely down to thirteen years of Tory misrule that have seen the wages of the social care workforce drop like a stone in real terms. Also universities, which are now massively dependent on overseas student fees to prevent them going bust.

    The Tories have royally screwed up and have nowhere to go with this. If they keep allowing overseas workers in to staff care homes, home care, nursing auxiliaries etc then the media and sections of the public are up in arms. But if they raise the salary threshold to reduce the numbers of work visas the social care system will collapse, with massive knock on consequences for NHS waiting times, delayed operations, preventable deaths etc.

    You pays your money and takes your choice. Do you want more immigrants and a functioning care/health system? Or do you want care homes going bust, old people dying in their own homes, dementia patients sitting in their own effluent, massive bed blocking in hospitals, preventable deaths from cancer, heart disease etc and millions of people living with pain and immobility because they can’t get routine operations?

    Because the simple fact is that there aren’t enough ‘indigenous’ British people prepared to do arduous personal care work for poverty wages. So we’re stuck with this dilemma until we start really valuing social care work and paying the wages that would attract enough Brits to do the work.
     
  7. Idlebantam

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    You are right the Conservatives have been dismal in trying to stem immigration.

    However, it was a Labour government under Blair who rolled out the welcome mat for migrants declaring he backed uncapped numbers.

    Starmer said pretty much the same thing 2 years ago, yet had the audacity yesterday to flip flop and blast the current Government for been unable to control the numbers.

    I think most people don't have a problem with people coming here with jobs lined up in the care and health service, it's the thousands who come here expecting everything on a plate instantly and of course the many criminals and potential terrorists infiltrating us.

    We need to somehow find an answer to stopping the unwelcome influx of migrants, many of them young men, with no family in sight.
     
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  8. Tony Wilkinson

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    Exactly right, but if you notice the lefties always fail to mention that aspect......
     
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  9. Bronco

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    I would suggest that figure is with regards the boat people and others who come here illegally to claim asylum, many without any documentation to help prove who they are and why they have fled their mother country, and whilst their asylum claims are being processed they disappear without trace, that's one good way to repay the country that is possibly going to allow them to stay if their claim is a success.
    The present situation is nothing to do with regards those with work visas as they would have been processed before they come or they wouldn't get a work visa.
    I'd have though if they are as they claim genuine asylum seekers they would do everything within n their power to make sure they are available whilst their asylum claims were being processed.
    Then again why would an asylum seeker who enter the UK by illegal means then abide by the law and make themselves available whilst their asylum claim is being processed they have nothing else to do unless they join the black economy market also illegal.
    I'd think the people who came here legally with work visas wouldn't be a part of that figure of 17,000 as they have already gone through legal channels.
    Do you seriously believe under a Labour government even if they do throw extra resources at the situation it would deter the likes of the boat people and other illegals coming to the UK, it was Blair and the Labour government who were more than happy to allow entry into the UK in vey large numbers as @Idlebantam@Idlebantam alludes to I doubt it will be a priority if Labour get into power at the next General Election.
    I've posted before if there is a need for people from abroad who want to take these jobs you've mentioned we should manage the situation with work visas Germany did it off years with regards cheap ok Turkish labour but only while work was available, but that should not mean they then have the right to bring other relatives and relations in to the UK.
    Maybe one route to go down is to get those within our society who believe being unemplyed is a life style choice to take these jobs or to lose their benefits.
     
  10. Offcomedun

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    The vast majority of those coming here are coming here legally to keep our health and social care services going. And the vast majority of asylum seekers are perfectly decent people. There’s a tiny, tiny minority of bad ‘uns coming in, especially since they’ve now dried up nearly all the Albanians coming here with criminal gangs. Where’s the evidence of all these supposed criminals causing mayhem in our society, apart from in your paranoid right wing imagination?

    As usual, you people are getting all wound up about the wrong targets. The way to stop immigration is to pay people decently for care jobs. Once you do that you can raise the salary threshold and skill requirements for incomers. But, without doing that, our health and social care services will collapse without the immigrants. Is that what you want?
     
    #30 Offcomedun, Nov 30, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2023
  11. Offcomedun

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    Oh, ok. You want the sick and vulnerable to be looked after by the most feckless members of our society, do you? Good plan. I just hope it’s not you or yours who have that misfortune. Despite the appalling wages, caring for the sick and vulnerable is a skilled and sensitive job, not something you can pull some smack head or loafer off the street to do. Anyone with the empathy and skills to do care work needs paying properly. Why would you do it this f you can earn more working in a supermarket?

    The point is that the boat people are a drop in the ocean. They create all the headlines but they are largely insignificant in terms of the headline high immigration numbers. The vast majority are here by legal means doing a good job. And of course they want to bring their dependents with them. Would you leave your kids and go thousands of miles to do a low paid, very tough job.
     
    #31 Offcomedun, Nov 30, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2023
  12. Bronco

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    Where have I suggested care workers should not earn a descent wage or don't have skills to do the job, you're the one categorising the unemployed as ( not something you can pull some smack head or loafer off the street to do) we know why these people prefer to work in this area because they do care about their residents even accepting the pay is poor, and as you suggest could earn more at a supermarket.
    I know what's involved with regards care workers one of our closest friends nursed many years at Lynfield Mount then was in charge of the care home my mother was a resident at, my mother spent her last 10 years in various as a resident in care homes so I'd never suggest your claim, do stop reading stuff into my post to try and score points.
    I was refering to the likes of agriculture where we're told we can't get the crops of fruit and vege harvested because some of our indigenous population won't work for low pay.
    Let's hear your views with regards our the subject our immigration problem, or don't you think it is a problem and these people fleeing through several countries where they could claim asylum to get to the UK have a right to come here, that leaves many western counties with a massive problem going forward, half of the worlds population have a right to flee their mother countries.
     
  13. Tony Wilkinson

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    That's an unfortunate line......

    So, 2 x equivalent full VP's per year invading is a drop in the ocean then... ?
     
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  14. Offcomedun

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    Yes, in a population of 60+ million, it is.
     
  15. Tony Wilkinson

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    You're 10 million out with that pop figure, anyway, hope a few turn up at yours then you might understand the rest of this country's concern/worry at this crisis whether you believe it or not....
     
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  16. Rogered Tart

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    That's pretty much the assessment of most people in this country, usually the silent majority of law abiding UK citizens. I'm wouldn't think one of them would be against controlled immigration where folk come over here to give themselves and their families a better chance in life. But what we've seen in the last few years is nothing of the sort, thousands of young men being systematically transported to Calais, the lady stop before the free ticket on the gravy train. I wouldn't mind being in accomodation this time of year, gotta be warmer in there than it is on the streets like the homeless or even in my house.
     
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  17. Offcomedun

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    Well, if it’s ten million higher population then the boat numbers are an even smaller proportion than I thought, eh?
    You just keep working yourself up into an apoplectic lather about the largely irrelevant numbers of asylum seekers. All your Colonel Blimpism changes nothing. Until we make wages for care workers commensurate with the demands of the work we’ll continue to keep importing foreign staff to do the jobs that Brits won’t do. That’s the real issue, however angry you insist on getting about asylum seekers (most of whom end up in paid work anyway).

    Why don’t you be honest? It’s not that they are (supposedly) crooks, wasters, spongers etc (which most of them actually aren’t) that really bothers you, is it? That’s just an excuse. It’s the fact that they are foreigners. So, however much we actually need these people to look after our increasingly ageing population, you still don’t like it, because they don’t look/think/talk/act like you. You want to turn the clock back to the 50s and 60s when nearly everyone here looked like you and me. Well, guess what? That ship has sailed. We can’t manage without them and, here’s the thing, most younger people don’t give a hoot. They’re quite happy to live cheek by jowl with people from other cultures. So you can keep bursting a blood vessel as much as you like because the die is cast.
     
  18. Rogered Tart

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    A drop in the ocean that doesn't contribute to the costs of the welfare system cos they aren't allowed to work. So who's paying for their health care, lodgings, food, dentists etc? Somebody please give a logical reason why hotels have been packed out up and down the country with freeloaders while veterans from our armed forces can't access physical and mental health care for things like PTSD?
     
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  19. Offcomedun

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    Because the Tories can't organise a piss up in a brewery, that's why. They've decimated the legal system so that these people hang around forever before their asylum claims are heard. So any that don't meet the asylum criteria soak up public funds for far longer than they should. They've also decimated the mental health system (which I worked in for 25 years, so I know a bit about it) and numerous other public services. The plain fact is that thirteen years of Tory rule have totally fecked the country. Nothing works properly any more, but the rich keep getting richer. And that's totally down to the Tories.

    There's nothing to suggest that any savings on the asylum system would be spent on war veterans anyway. You're just cherry picking two from a whole long list of government failures and arbitrarily sticking them together. Successive Tory governments have ground all our public services into the dust, but lets blame the foreigners for our problems. Classic public school ruling class divide and rule. Get the plebs fighting amongst themselves while we trouser all the money.
     
  20. Rogered Tart

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    Let's nail this one right on the head. I agree with a lot of your post. The Tories have decimated local services despite tax hikes for the working class, they are scum of the earth and I wouldn't piss on them if they were.on fire. But my points I asked still haven't been answered. Why have we seen an influx of thousands of young men under this ridiculous cover screen of 'asylum' or 'refugee' status? It's absolute hogwash, although I guess some are dumb enough to believe it. They shouldn't be here, they have no right to be here and no reason to be here other than to get.on the bleeding gravy train.
     

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