Most liked posts in thread: Brexit

Prior to Brexit, bands didn't have to 'fulfill the paperwork, licencing etc in different countries'. They could tour across various continental countries without having new paperwork for each country and lots of different guarantors etc'. That's the point. You can argue that the EU is making it difficult but that's the big issue with Brexit. Prior to Brexit they didn't have that option, because of free movement. The bureaucracy has become so onerous that it's no longer cost effective for many musicians. I emphasise again, I'm not talking about major recording bands with record company backup; I'm talking about grassroots jobbing musos on the folk, bluegrass etc scene and young musicians learning to negotiate the music biz, at much greater difficulty than before.

 

Of course I have - I posted it.
The German band refused entry aren't 'amateurs'. They all have day jobs, like many musicians do, because it's tough trying to make a living wage from music these days. I've no doubt they'd go full time professional if they could.

 

Okay. So they do it as a side line rather than their main 'professional' job which to me is an amateur.

Same as if a lad gets paid to play Sunday League football it doesn't make them a pro footballer in my eyes. But I have no interest in getting into a discussion on definition.

Having some sort of rules that stop people claiming to be in a band to get a work visa when their actual work is in a different area is probably an important loophole to close.

 

I know they didn't. But people voted for the change.

People voted to end freedom of movement and that applies to musicians in the same way that it would do to plumbers or office workers. Why would it not?

 

haha you didnt just use that argument in all seriousness did you?

 

I'm not making an argument. Its an observation of what people are saying.

 

No, it's not a 'sideline'. Having a separate day job is not their main professional job, it's simply a necessary evil because making money solely from music is so difficult these days.

 

Who, apart from you, is saying that? I've never heard it.

 

Because we're not talking about people coming over here for months or years at an end, using British health services, renting British properties etc, which seems to be what upsets people. We're talking about people coming here for a few days at a time to play a few gigs. It's a total spurious comparison. And the price for removing continental musicians' freedom to play gigs here is that we've made it much harder for our own musicians to earn money by touring Europe. Everybody loses. It's stupid.

 

What do you mean

You literally said that restricting overseas performers was bad for the Economy here?

 

And that's fair. But it still makes them amateur in my eyes.

Not that it matters. The key point is that you need to have some rule to prevent people from getting a work visa because they play in a very, very spurious band and use that to get around the entry requirements.

Whether the current rules are right - who knows - but at least we could change them if they're "wrong"

 

Freedom of movement that people voted to abolish wasn't just about long term though. Short term visits were also going to be affected.

And I agree we've made it harder but ending Freedom of Movement was always going to do that so it's hardly new news or a shock is it?

 

It's still stupid

 

I'm completely confused. Who is saying that it's bad for the economy having overseas artists taking slots that could go to British artists? I never said that.
I'm in favour of a free exchange of artists between Europe and the UK. This current situation benefits no one.

 

You said its bad for the economy. Restricting overseas artists from coming here (which by their definition opens slots for UK artists to play) is the reality of the situation.

I'm absolutely for making it easier for genuine artists from the EU and around the world to play here. I don't see a distinction. But I'm not against having some criteria to make sure that they're genuine - you shouldn't just have 4 Chinese fellas deciding they can all play the guitar so that they can get a work visa for example. Now whether that criteria is right I don't know....but as I keep saying at least its now in our power to change it if necessary.

 

When I said it's bad for the economy I was talking about our musicians. The music industry is one of our great success stories since at least the 1960s. We have a worldwide international reputation for our music, across multiple genres. Restrictive practices that make it harder for our musicians to export their talents and learn their craft by touring Europe are detrimental. And restricting continental musicians from coming here just makes it more likely that other countries will make life more difficult for our musicians. Cultural exchange is good. It shouldn't be seen as a threat. It was all so much easier and more sensible before Brexit introduced this negative mindset.

 

We are still paying the EU and iwill do so for a few more years. We also are still having to apply EU laws. We are unlikly to fully free of EU restrictions for a few years yet as brexit will take a few more years to untangle

 

We are weak now and will remain weak

We are already being left in the dust around a number of issues. It was predicted also.

A country of our size cannot compete in this world. We could and did compete as a big player in the EU. We had a winning formula and we retained a lot of power and influence in the globe. Thats undeniable!