Most liked posts in thread: Brexit

When it comes to brexit you are right. Im well angry about the costs to my pocket and the countrys future prospects. Across all other threads and life in general its quite the opposite.

You on the other hand are a putin apologist, xenophobe, racist and very much far right in your views. That tells us a lot about your sense of self, your need to be in a group and desire for order and hegemony. Your own sense of assurance faltered somewhere along the way.

 

Hello, he's back, Mr Charming ......

 

what a load of unsubstantiated nonsense. Putin is well within his right to look after his country and not surrender to NATO aggression. Though it is sad that Ukraine is just a pawn in the west’s ploy against Russia. No idea where the other unsubstantiated accusations come from Mr Angry. [DELETED - Mod]

 

Lets add homophobic to the list

Youre a disgrace - Ukraine a pawn haha

 

Lord Haw Haw

 

This is just complete made up nonsense. I don't even know what else to say to that, except that this is just plain false.

What is perfectly obvious to anyone who has any sort of impartial view of the situation is that NATO have been goading Russia for many-a-year and this is their own doing.

If Russia, or any other army, decided to surround the UK, do you not think we would respond?

 

It's not made up nonsense at all. Russia has installed a puppet regime in Belarus. It had one in Ukraine until the Ukrainian electorate kicked it out, much to Putin's horror. How dare they? Putin's Russia is currently doing in Moldova what it did in Georgia and Ukraine - sending agents in to foment unrest and encouraging breakaway regions as an excuse to go in and 'liberate' them at some future date. Left to his own devices, there's no doubt that Putin would annex the whole of Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova in a heartbeat. He does not recognise that these countries have a sovereign right to choose who to align themselves with and what form of government to have. He does not even recognise their right to be separate states - simply regarding them as regions of Russia.

Whose fault is it that many of these ex-Soviet states have chosen to become part of the EU and/or NATO? They have done so because they see those memberships as their best guarantee of not being swallowed up again into the Russian 'sphere of influence'. Most of those ex-Soviet countries only joined NATO after Putin invaded Crimea and installed puppet regimes in Donbas. They saw the writing on the wall and acted accordingly.
Putin is on record as regarding the fall of the Soviet Union as "The greatest geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century". However, those countries that have managed to extricate themselves from Russian tyranny, unsurprisingly, don't share that view, so they've done what they believe to be necessary to protect themselves against re-colonisation by Putin's Russia. And who can blame them?

As for your suggestion that NATO is surrounding Russia. Take a look at a map sometime.





Only about 10% of Russia borders European countries. Of that 10%, only Estonia and Latvia of the NATO countries have a significant border with Russia. Of course that proportion is about to get bigger when Finland joins NATO, but that is entirely Putin's fault. Finland (and Sweden) had no plans to join NATO until Russia illegally invaded Ukraine and threw their security into doubt.

In the 90s/early 2000s Russia had its chance to become part of the western family of democratic nations. Unfortunately it fell back into the hands of the ex-Soviet/KGB mafia who never accepted the fall of the USSR or the loss of its satellite states. Faced with Putin's obvious (to everyone but you) expansionist designs those states have chosen to align with the west. That's no one's fault except Russia's.

 

I thought "soverunty" was what you brexit types wanted. Im guessing giving it up to the indo pacific region will anger you just as much?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/13/ukrainian-orchestra-key-members-refused-visas-play-uk?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/apr/13/german-band-may-have-been-refused-uk-entry-because-they-have-day-jobs?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Absolute madness. What a sh!teshow this is. This government is making it ridiculously difficult for ordinary musicians to come here and for ours to play in Europe. Many have given up trying because the red tape is so unclear and onerous. Pointless nonsense.

 

Why should musicians get special treatment?

 

The music business is one of this county's greatest successes. Our pop/rock/r&b/rap etc artists are second only to the USA in world popularity. But up and coming artists need easy access to venues and tours to learn and hone their craft if we are to maintain our position.
This industry earns billions for this country in exports, tourism etc. But, at the same time, the venues that nurture these creative artists are struggling financially.
It's utter madness to make it harder for our musicians to make money touring the continent and for continental artists to come here and make money for our venues. It's called cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

I was asking for your opinion. And clearly they dont as per the articles. Hard not to miss the point but well done.

 

They really do. You must be brain dead if you think international artists don't play in the UK daily.

 

We're talking about grassroots musicians here, not international stars. How ever you want to spin it, Brexit has made it immeasurably harder for grassroots European musicians to play here and for ours to tour Europe. Not so hard if you're a big star with a record company and multiple staff to sort out the interminable bureaucracy, but simply not feasible or cost effective for jobbing musos.

 

Such a minor issue it’s not even worthy of discussion. Literally anything to attack Brexit it’s quite embarrassing actually you really ought to move on.

 

It's not a minor issue at all. Unless you are a person who doesn't give a sh!t about the livelihood of musicians and the health of the British music industry. You are obviously a philistine who doesn't care about the health of the cultural life of this country. It's an issue that affects thousands of musicians with potentially very serious impacts on the future vibrancy of a very important part of the UK economy. It's basically an unnecessary and avoidable restraint of trade caused by Brexit. Just one of many negative impacts.

 

How does making it slightly more difficult for amateur musicians from overseas to come play here affect those things?

It's weird because when we sign deals with Australian farmers for example the non-stop remainers say that their products will undercut the local products.

When we restrict overseas performers coming here they say that it's bad for the economy to have overseas amateurs taking up spots that could demonstrate British artists instead.

We can't have it both ways.

But in general having amateur European musicians jump through a hoop to prove that's the genuine reason for travel isn't a big deal is it?

 

Who says that? It's not something I've heard. I know lots of musicians and I've never heard any of them complain about overseas musicians coming here. In my experience, most musicians valued the free two way flow of musical creativity we had before Brexit.

Who is talking about 'amateur musicians'. Huge numbers of musicians, here and abroad, have second day jobs simply because they can't earn enough to survive these days from gigging and/or recording. That doesn't make them amateurs.

And it's not just about incoming musicians from Europe. Touring Europe has become a logistical nightmare because of Brexit. As I said above, you can spin it any way you like, but Brexit has made the process of touring, for both British and continental musicians, immeasurably harder than it used to be. You may not think that's a big deal but, since I have lots of musician friends and acquaintances, I do.

 

Have you read the article?

 

Oh, and in general I agree Brexit has made it more difficult for touring artists but these are not barriers that are insurmountable. If you're a band that is going on a tour then you should already be familiar with needing to fulfil the paperwork, licensing, etc in different countries.

The difference now though is if we see these as being "poor legislation" we now have to power to change them whereas previously the obligations placed on non-EU bands were largely out of our control.