Most liked posts in thread: BoJos conference speech

I’m sure this lazy, fat, lying, dim witted sack of shit is the just the guy to lead us into this new utopia.
Absolute bell end of of a human being.

 

You really have to wonder why Labour have been out of power for so long, 13 years under Blair followed by Brown, then the subprime disaster and the world economy crash where Labour were blamed.
Even after 10+ years under a Lib/Dem/ Tory coalition, then the Tories voted back into power with their austerity measures "were all in it together" financially crippling many hard working families, Labour have never looked like challenging the Tories again even with Ed Miliband as leader, so the UK electorate kept a party in government that most say they hate.

 

@Rogered Tart Are you secretly moonlighting as Pie's script writer?

 

For all his faults - and there are many - when they give him a chance to do that sort if thing he's bloody good. It's style over substance for the most part but it's cohesive, sensible and most of all positive.

He's in an almost unique position because he's separated himself from Cameron and May through Brexit so can almost shrug off the previous failings of the Conservative party without actually saying it and present himself as being a new broom.

 

It is right, lower taxes , higher wages and much better pension increases, Remember Brown abolishing the 10p tax rate enjoyed by the lower paid, Labour giving a 10p ( yes 10p ) a week pension increase? The Tories giving much larger increases in the minimum wage and raising pensions from £!02 a week to a £150 in one go and introducing the triple lock taking many out of poverty Labour were happy to leave them in, The Tories look after the wealthy but also the working man and elderly get their share unlike Labour who have cynically taken them for granted on the basis of keep them poor and they will vote Labour on the sad belief Labour is on their side instead of using them

 

I feel like you've missed your own point there. You've said that it's not a genuine change in the party but then said that their leader is more to the left and is willing to spend public money and will shift to where he will gain support rather than having firm principles - the fact his support is more Northern than a typical Tory is dragging him in this direction even more.

But the strange thing is that his party is following him (rather than the Labour shambles of tearing each other down) most of the criticism from within the party at the conference came from things to the left such as the ending of the temporary UC uplift rather than from the increase in the tax burden. The whole party is moving with him. He is taking a gamble but at the moment, at least within his own party, it's actually working. Whether it will continue to do so is anybodies guess but this isn't the 'Same Old Tory Party' at the moment.

The fact that he's willing to annoy business by putting the emphasis on them to fix issues that Boris has created and please some elements of The Guardian shows the shift. In fact the best article in the last few days was showing how 'leveling up' is being sold to the traditional heartlands who would view it as a negative. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/oct/06/affluent-stoke-poges-welcomes-plan-to-take-pressure-off-by-levelling-up
They're trying to make the desires of the redwall and the shires completely compatible and everyone is willing to wait and see.

And you're dead right about the wages - I mentioned earlier than inflation is his biggest issue - however if inflation goes up because wages have naturally gone up through market forces then who is going to criticise him? The left can't because increasing key workers pay and conditions is crucial to them and the right can't because it's the effect of a free market.

 

Interesting and thought provoking views there mate. A lot of people can't see beyond their hatred of everything Tory, Angela Rayner and Richard Burgon are good examples of this and until they can see beyond this and look at why the Tories and even Boris appeal to voters they will struggle to dislodge them.
Labour changed under Blair and Brown, which they needed to do to get elected, actually it started under John Smith. They need to find a way again. Hard left or Champagne Socialism won't do it.
Due partly to Brexit the Tories have woken up to the fact that it isn't the party faithful that get you elected, it's the floaters.
I was brought up with " the Conservatives are in bed with the bosses and Labour with the Trade Unions". Boris whether we believe him or not is trying to change this.

 

There are some empty shelves but the "Doom Mongers" would have you believe there are rows and rows of them.

 

It's Labour that are keeping the Tories in government and even though recent polls suggest a potential drop in the Tory majority it will carry on like that until Labour get people like John Smith, Tony Blair and Gordon Brown with the vision to see what is needed to take votes away from the Tories in large enough numbers.
It could be argued that the Tories represent the working man and woman these days not Labour. It was bad enough for Labour that the Tories appealed to floating voters but now, partly through Brexit they are mopping up former Labour strongholds. And a bigger problem for Labour will come if Boris delivers on some of his "levelling up" promises.
Installing Jeremy Corbyn as leader with hindsight has probably set them back years. I don't think Sir Kier Starmer is strong enough to drag them back. Andy Burnham? possibly but would he get elected as leader?

 

Agree. But at the minute that's all he has to do.

While Labour also has no meaningful policies he can play the game purely on rhetoric, cohesion, sidebites and optimism and he'll win hands down every time.

The high wage, "levelling up", Britain First type of message is working relatively well without any more specifics that they're giving. He's also got the positivity of the vaccine, economic growth, putting money into social care/NHS and the fact his main opposition were pro-lockdown and covid hasn't reached the projections all play into his favor without him needing to go much further.

It looks like he's very happy to let his ministers do the policy stuff and he'll just stand up and do the people friendly messaging bit. Which probably isn't a bad choice.

 

His tenure as mayor of London says not, He improved the lot of Londoners no end with his housing and transport policies

 

The idea that the Tory Party, of all people, have deliberately created a scenario to engineer a high wage economy is beyond laughable.
Who smashed the trades unions to prevent workforces from effectively protecting their members' living standards?
Who do you think it is that have been paying the poverty wages for the last ten years, to force down costs, keep prices low and maximise profits? It's the self same companies that pay squillions into Tory Party coffers every year and pay big bucks to Tory politicians for an occasional few hours in their boardrooms. The low wage employers are the Tory Party and their backers.
When the labour shortages embolden what's left of the unions to strike for higher wages, will the Tories be cheering them on? When higher wages cause price hikes on food and consumer goods, will the Tories be shouting, 'hurrah'? Of course not.
The Tories have always represented the interests of employers rather than employees, whatever bogus rhetoric they're currently spewing out for the gullible. Anyone who thinks they've suddenly turned into the champions of high wages is either tripping or born yesterday.

 

Much of what was implemented in his tenure had already been set up by Livingstone. What exactly did Johnson do that 'improved their lot no end'?

 

Really? Are you seriously saying that most ordinary working people were better off under Heath and Thatcher than they were under Wilson and Blair? Sorry, but that's nonsense.

 

There is a problem here that you have a set idea of what a Tory is.

However, partly because they won the 'Northern' vote through Brexit there are signs that Johnson's Tory party is as different from Camerons and Corbyn's Labour was to Blair's. The fact that a lot of the traditional Conservatives were unhappy with the tax rises to fund NHS/Social care shows that they are at least currently, very slightly different.

I've got a lot of friends like you who view Tories as evil or bad regardless of what they actually do because that's what they were brought up with but given time the high skill, high wage outlook coukd theoretically work and ties in with a lot of the ideals they promised through Brexit. Disrupting supply and demand won't be without significant bumps though. These Tories have been voted in on an agenda quite different to any of their previous versions? Can they pull it off? Who knows.

 

If Boris's plan works the whole country will be better off as a result, Its a big ask to be honest but what is really sad is the left hoping it will fail with the result that the people they say they care about will not get the benefits of it and be worse off,
The deception of the left knows no bounds

 

I do a big shop every saturday and have yet to experience these 'empty' shelves..

 

The thing is, the way they painted it today avoided it being a cliché North vs South thing which is what was giving me a bit of hope. It was talking about the differences on an even more local aspect (Ribble Valley vs Blackpool for example).

As for the food shortages, I've got to be honest I haven't seen any but that might just be my location and isn't to say it hasn't happened anywhere but if short term shortages lead to long term wage growth and better conditions for workers who are key to the supply chain then it will all be forgiven. Inflation is going to be the really fly in the ointment of that though.