BoJos conference speech

It is right, lower taxes , higher wages and much better pension increases, Remember Brown abolishing the 10p tax rate enjoyed by the lower paid, Labour giving a 10p ( yes 10p ) a week pension increase? The Tories giving much larger increases in the minimum wage and raising pensions from £!02 a week to a £150 in one go and introducing the triple lock taking many out of poverty Labour were happy to leave them in, The Tories look after the wealthy but also the working man and elderly get their share unlike Labour who have cynically taken them for granted on the basis of keep them poor and they will vote Labour on the sad belief Labour is on their side instead of using them

 

There is a problem here that you have a set idea of what a Tory is.

However, partly because they won the 'Northern' vote through Brexit there are signs that Johnson's Tory party is as different from Camerons and Corbyn's Labour was to Blair's. The fact that a lot of the traditional Conservatives were unhappy with the tax rises to fund NHS/Social care shows that they are at least currently, very slightly different.

I've got a lot of friends like you who view Tories as evil or bad regardless of what they actually do because that's what they were brought up with but given time the high skill, high wage outlook coukd theoretically work and ties in with a lot of the ideals they promised through Brexit. Disrupting supply and demand won't be without significant bumps though. These Tories have been voted in on an agenda quite different to any of their previous versions? Can they pull it off? Who knows.

 

Not quite fairer for all but opportunity being more equally spread. He did quite a long part on it today (as did Gove on Monday which was actually excellent) but it will be difficult to actually measure regardless of what they say but the ideal behind it is all about uncorking untapped potential to increase productivity and its not a bad theory.

 

If Boris's plan works the whole country will be better off as a result, Its a big ask to be honest but what is really sad is the left hoping it will fail with the result that the people they say they care about will not get the benefits of it and be worse off,
The deception of the left knows no bounds

 

I do a big shop every saturday and have yet to experience these 'empty' shelves..

 

The thing is, the way they painted it today avoided it being a cliché North vs South thing which is what was giving me a bit of hope. It was talking about the differences on an even more local aspect (Ribble Valley vs Blackpool for example).

As for the food shortages, I've got to be honest I haven't seen any but that might just be my location and isn't to say it hasn't happened anywhere but if short term shortages lead to long term wage growth and better conditions for workers who are key to the supply chain then it will all be forgiven. Inflation is going to be the really fly in the ointment of that though.

 

To be fair he did mention the poor east west links that he said was a disgrace and also that Leeds was the biggest City in Europe without a Metro that he said had to improve

 

I know what you mean generally about Gove but in an era when praising the opposition is taboo listen or read what Andy Burnham said about Gove getting the levelling up role on the Marr show. His speech on the subject was absolutely on the money as well.

 

Here's another great Brexsht 'high tech high wage' win for the stammering clown. Oh dear. . .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58820599

Oh and if the fatso clown wants a high wage economy (Germany anyone?) he can go ahead and give the nurses a suitable high pay increase.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/oct/06/nurses-in-england-to-be-balloted-on-possible-strike-action-over-pay

Let's see if Kermit the clown has any substance. I'll give you all a clue: don't hold yer breath!

 

If it were a genuine change in the position of the Tory Party you would have a point. But it isn't. It's a cynical stance being taken to make the best of the mess they have created.
Johnson has always been an atypical Tory, capable of shifting his position with the wind (eg on Brexit) depending on whichever tack best supports his personal ambitions. He's also always been further left than most of his party economically - he likes grand gestures and attractive schemes and isn't afraid to spend public money on them. But most of the Tory Party - MPs, members and financial backers - are Thatcher's Children - still firmly wedded to the low tax, low public spending, small state, the market knows best dogma that fueled mass unemployment in the 80s and ten years of austerity under Cameron and May. I don't believe that they will all accept the current rhetoric for long if job shortages continue to cause rising prices, supply chain problems and emboldened union actions in support of pay increases.
Johnson's speech has gone down like a cup of cold sick with many of those who fund the party or influence Tory thinking:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/06/business-leaders-pm-tory-conference-speech-boris-johnson?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Even the Guardian accepts that Johnson's current tack is proving relatively popular, by stealing Labour's traditional positions, and leaving little space for the opposition to position itself.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/oct/07/boris-johnsons-high-wage-agenda-labours-economy?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

But there is an inherent incompatibility between the desires of the left behind 'red wall' northern areas - requiring large amounts of investment that will only be fundable through taxation - and the traditional southern and shire supporters (and most Tory MPs) who want low taxes and low prices. Moving to a high wage economy is easy to say but much harder to do without causing massive inflation. Are all those hotels, bars and restaurants in the southern tourist areas going to suddenly start paying £15 an hour to recruit sufficient chefs, waiters and cleaners and, if they do, aren't prices going to massively increase?

Clearly the current state of the Labour Party means that Johnson is getting a free ride at present, despite the big problems that were totally ignored in the Tory Conference parallel universe. But Johnson is taking a big gamble here and the Tories will chop him without hesitation if his grand gestures look like alienating the desires and pockets of their core supporters.

 

I feel like you've missed your own point there. You've said that it's not a genuine change in the party but then said that their leader is more to the left and is willing to spend public money and will shift to where he will gain support rather than having firm principles - the fact his support is more Northern than a typical Tory is dragging him in this direction even more.

But the strange thing is that his party is following him (rather than the Labour shambles of tearing each other down) most of the criticism from within the party at the conference came from things to the left such as the ending of the temporary UC uplift rather than from the increase in the tax burden. The whole party is moving with him. He is taking a gamble but at the moment, at least within his own party, it's actually working. Whether it will continue to do so is anybodies guess but this isn't the 'Same Old Tory Party' at the moment.

The fact that he's willing to annoy business by putting the emphasis on them to fix issues that Boris has created and please some elements of The Guardian shows the shift. In fact the best article in the last few days was showing how 'leveling up' is being sold to the traditional heartlands who would view it as a negative. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/oct/06/affluent-stoke-poges-welcomes-plan-to-take-pressure-off-by-levelling-up
They're trying to make the desires of the redwall and the shires completely compatible and everyone is willing to wait and see.

And you're dead right about the wages - I mentioned earlier than inflation is his biggest issue - however if inflation goes up because wages have naturally gone up through market forces then who is going to criticise him? The left can't because increasing key workers pay and conditions is crucial to them and the right can't because it's the effect of a free market.

 

It matters not, if wages rise and if it's being outstripped by inflation it effectively becomes a wage reduction. The word on the street is that we are going to see much higher inflation, that's without the pressure from energy price rises. Wages are rising rapidly in the EU and the US too. Add on wage inflation and in a year or so we could be seeing some pretty hefty price increases. The poor and the red wall seats will suffer disproportionately, the better off will be able to ride it. Brexit will only add to the woes. There are a lot of factors that seem to be converging and it doesn't look promising.

 

They will follow him as long as they are ahead in the polls. The party faithful is currently swallowing their usual political inclinations because, despite the government's manifest incompetence on many levels, they are still riding high. Part of that is due to Brexit voters being willing to give him a long benefit of the doubt and part is down to the opposition disarray. Whether that support will survive prolonged shortages and price hikes in the shops, massive fuel bills etc, not to mention continued NHS problems, remains to be seen.

 

I agree and there is no doubt people - arguably more competent people - waiting in the wings to take the Tories back towards their routes but its showing no signs of happening so far.

The issue for at least 2 out of those 4 things is that they are multinational issues so while the opposition can rightly point them out they won't be able to offer a way of fixing them.

 

Good points but says a lot about our non existent opposition.

 

Today there are 4 areas of politics..
1) Right of centre where the majority of people are but with no meaningful representation
2) Centre where we have quasi socialist and green but put themselves forward as conservatives saying the right things but unable to put in to practise.
3) Old fashioned labour, woke and broke seeking mostly the votes of scroungers and immigrants
4) Absolute marxist no hopers.

 

Interesting and thought provoking views there mate. A lot of people can't see beyond their hatred of everything Tory, Angela Rayner and Richard Burgon are good examples of this and until they can see beyond this and look at why the Tories and even Boris appeal to voters they will struggle to dislodge them.
Labour changed under Blair and Brown, which they needed to do to get elected, actually it started under John Smith. They need to find a way again. Hard left or Champagne Socialism won't do it.
Due partly to Brexit the Tories have woken up to the fact that it isn't the party faithful that get you elected, it's the floaters.
I was brought up with " the Conservatives are in bed with the bosses and Labour with the Trade Unions". Boris whether we believe him or not is trying to change this.

 

You've simplified it there but you aren't far wrong. These days to get elected a Party needs be prepared to not so much abandon its core beliefs but be a bit more flexible.
The problem I have with the Lib Dems for example is not just that they want to reverse the result of the Referendum (a referendum that I didn't agree with) but more that they feel they know what is best for us and campaign on that instead of listening to (potential) voters.