COVID-19

in a gobal pandemic it should be a condition of having a social life. What do you expect the government to do? We dont pay at use for heath care yet you expect the government to do nothing so that hospital beds fill up?

At the end of the day you have the freedom to make that choice.

unfortunately you do not have the freedom from the consequences of your actions.

 

Well you could say, that CV19 is a potentially harmful substance within the body, not just for those who have it within them, but for those around them that don't. To continue the analogy, I asked someone who hadn't had the vaccine "because the Government are making me have it", if they are going to be driving home after eight pints. "No, that would be dangerous and I might kill myself or others. It's also against the law". I also asked if they wear a seatbelt when they drive. "Of course. It protects me from injury if I had an accident, and it's also a law to wear one". So that argument wasn't really very thought through. From what I've gathered from interaction and talking to those who won't have the vaccine, is that it's not so much about the health implications, but the fact that they are being forced to do it. I get that, but with every choice there's a consequence. And if you can put up with not being able to go into certain pubs or football grounds, then fair play to you.

I've also got to add that I am not a "pro vaxxer" and don't look down or discriminate on those who have made the choice not to have it. As mentioned in this thread, maybe the anti vaxxers are right. Maybe all of us who have had Pfizer might have our brains leaking out of our ears in three years time. Sadly, I have had first hand experience of the side effects of getting the vaccine. My cousin Gareth's wife Lisa, died after complications from taking the AZ vaccine. As she was a popular radio presenter, it received pretty high profile media coverage in the UK, and having a member of the family die in such a manner, really hit home that there are some risks (however small) involved. Especially when my old man and my sister were booked in the following week for the same vaccine.

 

You're not. But what's the difference?

 

That may have been the point, but there's little to no direct evidence to show that the vaccine is successful in preventing transmission. In fact, the opposite is true - in some of the highest rates of vaccinated countries in the world (such as Israel), infection rates are still very high. Today alone - my wife is vaccinated, but isolating because she's COVID positive. I have 2 close friends who are vaccinated and currently COVID positive, my boss is vaccinated, but currently COVID positive.

There are also stories of people getting the vaccine and suffering serious health problems afterwards, even dying.

The data is complex. The choice is a personal one. But there's little to suggest that the vaccine prevents transmission.

 

We don't pay for health care? Really?

Maybe you don't pal but I've been contributing for all of my working life.

 

You could but isn't that the point? Checking people for their age stops people under 18 drinking. Checking people to see if they're vaccinated DOESN'T stop them carrying the virus into your establishment.

As for the rest I'm not going to into the objections that other people have.

People should have the vaccines - but as it's not risk free (as you sadly mentioned) and is imperfect it shouldn't be coercive by creating a two tier society.

 

I’m sorry but that sounds abhorrent to me and I’d be wholly uncomfortable with anything like that. In the same way the Aussies and French require you to have documentation to do basic daily tasks like visit the shops.

It’s an attack on liberty, an invasion of privacy, and mass compliance sets a precedent for potentially far worse measures going forward, such as checking monetary and even social credit scores prior to being able to partake in various elements of society.

If you’re comfortable with that, fine, but I’m really not and that’s why I won’t go along with vaccine passports.

 

You can't have the freedom to make a choice AND be cast out from normal society for making that choice. That's not how a democracy or free society works. The vaccine, if it works, protects the person getting the vaccine - no one else.

What do I expect the government to do? Provide the NHS the resources it needs to cope and deliver a viable health service, from the money we DO pay. Where do you think the money comes from? I don't expect it to implement unnecessary levels of social control that exceed anything we've ever seen in this country and I absolutely expect it NOT to mandate vaccines for children against the will of the parents of that child.

 

Quite right. I'd still object on the basis of principle, but if the vaccine prevented people contracting and transmitting the virus then there might be some logic to a vaccine passport. So it doesn't. Its a nonsense, and its entirely sinister. No business has any need to know the medical status of its customers. Is abhorrent.

 

I am yet to see one argument that would suggest Covid Passports would in anyway reduce transmission of the virus.

We have schools back with unvaccinated children, going back to households who are mixing with other. I guess I am current in direct contact with 12 people which is my family and my workplace. Beyond that I am in indirect contact with 30+ children x 2 via my kids, another 10 people from my other halves workplace, and 30+ people via my work collegues families.

I don't know how many of those people are vaccinated, as there are 60+ children in that list I would suggest I'm indirectly in contact with more non vaccinated people than vaccinated people.

And yet I'm led to believe that stopping a handful of people who have chosen not to take the vaccine at a nightclub or large event is the tipping point?

 

Can you seriously not see the difference? Maybe it's the thin end of the wedge, but from a personal point of view I have no problem whatsoever anyone knowing my vaccine status, but that doesn't mean I want anyone to know that I have an abnormally large penis other medical conditions

 

I agree with you. Bottom line is, that I need to keep my business running. Its a simple choice of going along with the protocol, or getting fined (or going to court to fight these fines), or getting no customers through the door, which in turn ends up with me having to close. I mentioned a few people complaining, but on the whole, customers understand that it is how it is. There's an article in the news today, about a cafe here that refuses to do the checks, and is letting everyone through the door, because they believe in freedom of choice and anti discrimination. The offset of that is, that most of their staff are completely scared that they are open to unvaccinated people, and spend their shift masked up, handwashing every five mins and won't go within six feet of the customer. A lot of staff have left. Doesn't exactly sound like a lovely carefree environment to spend time in to me.

 

I don't particularly want them to know either, Just because it isn't 100% of my medical history it doesn't mean that only knowing 10% of it is right,

 

Yet there is also families whose loved ones have died after taking it wishing they hadn't it that argument works both ways. As I say I am not against anyone taking nor anyone like myself who hasn't taken it but my own feeling is we do need to know more before I will do so.

 

I do get your your point, particularly if it's the thin end of the wedge, but personally it's not a big deal to me.

 

To be honest, it provides more peace of mind than lack of transmission. We went to a festival on the weekend, and had to show vaccination proof to get in. Once inside, no masks, no social distancing etc. I was a bit uncomfortable at first, but then it dawned on me that everyone here has had the vaccination (unless they've blagged or forged their way inside). Yes I could have still caught it, and yes I could still transmit it, but the worry of maybe bumping into someone who hasn't had the vaccine was not there. Stupid I know, and all in the mind, but it did make me feel a little more relaxed after all these months of people being socially anxious. (and yes, I did think I had a "cough" when I got home...but that soon passed!).

 

I don't have a problem people knowing either, because that's my choice. I have a huge problem with the idea of people being very heavily coerced into a medical procedure to be able to attend a football game, or go to a pub, or restaurant, or shop.

 

Its illogical, but not stupid. Its actually understandable. There's been a level of psychological manipulation on display at a global level for the last 18 months, the like of which the world has never seen.

 

Astounding how many people cannot actually read on this forum. “At use” i said.

 

That's the thing Dave we don't know either way both my mum and step father have taken it with my mum ending up in hospital. My aunty likewise and she still has headaches and aching limbs yet was fine before. Yet my dad hasn't had it and when he had the flu jab for the first time 7 years ago only a few weeks later he had a massive stroke which he believes played a part.

What I will say is if I was of a certain age like my parents then I would probably have it by now but as someone in his mid forties I am not sure about it at all.