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Where now?

Discussion in 'City Talk' started by Flying Duck, Nov 12, 2018.

  1. Flying Duck

    P.L.24/25 Entrant

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    11/11/18, 24th in the league. one month til January.

    We have a huge squad, but injuries and a lot of youngsters. So a very limited squad.

    Given what we have, how do you play it? lets play manager.
     
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  2. River_City_Bantam

    P.L. 23/24 Top 20 P.L.24/25 Entrant P.L. 20/21 Top 10

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    1) Scour the free-agent market for dependable veterans who could help us now, calm things down, and take some of the pressure off the younger players. Sign them.

    2) We need points, we need confidence. Probably easier to get these from good defence than prolific offence, thus concentrate on becoming defensively tight. Even a few 0-0s will help us at the moment. If that means ugly, park-the-bus type football with a 5-4-1 formation, so be it. We have a decent keeper, at least.

    3) Having accomplished 1) and 2), work on improving the offence. Now that the players have been reinforced, and also know they don't need to score 2 or 3 just to draw at best, they might loosen up in front of goal and actually start scoring.

    I can see that each of these three might be problematic; indeed I hoped that Hopkin would already have managed 2) and a bit more of 1), but no.

    I dunno; right now everything connected with the club is at a low. We need a spark, whether from a new player or a fluky win, or advancing in the Cup.

    RCB
     
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  3. Petrov

    Petrov Squad Player

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    Things aren't as rosie as you are making out. It's two months until January.
     
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  4. Petrov

    Petrov Squad Player

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    Also, T&A article this morning confirming that Abbott has gone back to a recruitment role. God help us.
     
    Bantam@{Lancs} and The Evidence like this.
  5. RowZ

    RowZ Emergency Backup

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    What sort of calender have you got? Thought we had the rest of November and the whole of December to get through yet, or has Edin cancelled Christmas this year?
     
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  6. HUDDERSSBANTAM

    HUDDERSSBANTAM Squad Player

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    It's all a bit 'after the horse has bolted'.

    Not sure why the free agents weren't brought in 6-8 weeks ago. It was pretty clear we were short in certain areas from day one.

    If we bring in free agents now they could take 6 weeks to get up to speed. That's just before Xmas.

    Backroom staff is only getting looked at now. Why not 4-6 weeks ago.

    He tried 2, got a win at Wimbledon and then gradually went away from it, to play more football on the deck.

    We definitely need some ugly performances right now. The result is all that counts atm.
     
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  7. Petrov

    Petrov Squad Player

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    Perhaps his attempts to do those things have been stalled and it is only now Rhodes is back that he has been given the green light to start making changes?
     
  8. Botswana Bantam

    P.L.24/25 Entrant Supporter

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    Summat like that 1-0 at Peterborough the other year where Hiwula scored from McMahon's cross and we rode out the rest of the game. That'll do.
     
  9. marshy77

    marshy77 Emergency Backup

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    Without sounding too positive it is thankfully starting to look a little brighter with the return of Jim O'B and Devine plus Gibson back after a slight back problem.
    Right back is still an issue which needs sorting asap.
    Like the sound of a sports scientist coming in to help out, should help with fitness and injuries plus Abbotts out of the way but unfortunately is back as the recruitment guy!!
    Hard fought point/win on Sat would be a huge boost and then on to the sell out home game against Oxford!! **so funny**so funny**so funny
     
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  10. Bronco

    P.L. 23/24 Top 20 Euro24 PL Entrant P.L.24/25 Entrant P.L. 20/21 Top 30 Supporter Euro 2020

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    Let David Hopkin identity 3 out of contract players, bite the bullet with regards cost and give the guy a chance.
    It might cost us now but what cost can anyone put on relegation and the knock on effect, if fans are turning their backs on the club now they aren't coming back to watch league two football.
     
  11. SimonW

    Staff Member Admin Moderator P.L.24/25 Entrant Qatar 2022 Entrant

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    As I've said before just biting the bullet on the cost may not be viable as the leagues FFP is on wages alone. The wage bill won't be that much under the 60% of turnover and most clubs at this level including you really need to do one in one out which you can't do with free agents (unless you can agree on mutual termination with existing players). The only way around it is for the owners to gift the club a lump sum and £1mill only adds £11k to the weekly wage budget which isn't a massive amount for the kind of players who would, without doubt, improve the squad. And who is going to gift £1mill, its one thing to invest £1mill but just giving it away is never going to happen. Any player without a club right now doesn't really care about just playing, it's not like the country is short on football teams all of whom would be happy taking the majority of experienced players, they are still free agents as Money is a deciding factor to them and they have priced themselves out of other moves so as you will be close to the max allowed wage bill it won't be like they can bring loads of them in, you may only have the budget for 1 or 2 and that could then impact January as you will be reliant on moving a player out before bringing one in.

    So the question is what's better, blowing the wage budget on an experienced but expensive player but who may be another square peg for a round hole or having the wage budget without having to offload players first to bring in the right players who maybe be cheaper on the wage front but fit in with Hopkin's really wants?


    Hopkins didn't bring in any of his own staff initially at Livingston and even when he did later it was fairly minor roles. He seems to be someone who doesn't have this trusted team and is happy evaluating his backroom team first before tweaking it. If he has a long career in management he will eventually find a trusted assistant who follows him around at the very least but at this point, he doesn't and it's probably better evaluating the qualities of the existing team rather than bringing in potentially worse people from Livingston who were forced on him or as someone else suggested just picking someone he spent a few days on the coaching courses
     
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  12. Inspector

    Supporter

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    Maybe Hopkin has identified players and Abbott is more scout than recruitment hopefully. Or maybe to free up the wage bill, he's been sent out to see if he can offload some of the crap he's brought to the club.
     
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  13. JonButterfield

    Euro24 PL Entrant P.L.24/25 Entrant Qatar 2022 Entrant

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    We can't just sign a load of players.

    We need to trim the fat, hopefully sell on guys like McCartan and Patrick, cut our losses on players like Brunker, Isherwood, Wright, and possibly even guys like Riley.

    We need to lose numbers, while signing superior players.

    Not easy at all.
     
  14. Dennis

    Staff Member Moderator Supporter

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    During a summer transfer window when everything is to play for in the coming season and there are many players whose contracts have lapsed, I couldn't agree more about losing numbers and signing better players. During this coming January transfer window, when half the season has already elapsed and we are 8 points from the safety zone, we are already in a very different place and something will have to give.
     
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  15. Bronco

    P.L. 23/24 Top 20 Euro24 PL Entrant P.L.24/25 Entrant P.L. 20/21 Top 30 Supporter Euro 2020

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    That's exactly the opposite of what I'm suggesting, Hopkin will be aware of players out of contract who can do a job in Hopkin's and that players prefered position, I'm certainly not asking for money to be spent on a player as you put it to fit a square peg for a round hole, we seen that happen far too many times.
    With regards your FFP Stefan may have to "gift" the club ££££ to get someone in and give Hopkin a chance, because league two will certainly be an expensive experience if we go down.
     
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  16. Rogered Tart

    P.L. 23/24 Top 30 Euro24 PL Entrant P.L.24/25 Entrant

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    It would make sense, theres no guarantee we would bounce back if we did go down. Staying up isn’t impossible but its going to take time to right all the wrongs that Rahic has done. Might take a lot longer than a season to do that.
     
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  17. Bronco

    P.L. 23/24 Top 20 Euro24 PL Entrant P.L.24/25 Entrant P.L. 20/21 Top 30 Supporter Euro 2020

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    I get it's not as easy as just making signings, but if there are constraints because of FFP, surely that applies in the January transfer window, what is worrying is let's say we have targets lined up the earliest we could get them in would be 7 week if as last season it goes to the last day of the window it's 11 weeks, we have a minimum of 8 games and possibly 13 if it's late in the January window, which could make a massive difference to giving David Hopkin any chance of keeping us up.
     
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  18. SimonW

    Staff Member Admin Moderator P.L.24/25 Entrant Qatar 2022 Entrant

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    It’s not like out of contract players of the right quality are so common that getting that perfect player is easy though, you are usually having to make compromises with them. You are having to select from what’s available not what’s perfect. Just look at some of the players identified on here, they don’t seem perfect fits on the playing side and often from the off field stuff they are really problematic. Does Hopkin want to take a compromise which will restrict the wage budget in Jan or would he prefer getting that ideal player in in Jan?
     
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    How likes this.
  19. Bronco

    P.L. 23/24 Top 20 Euro24 PL Entrant P.L.24/25 Entrant P.L. 20/21 Top 30 Supporter Euro 2020

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    I would hope the lads who are here on trial are players David Hopkins wants to play in specific positions, I don't see why getting someone in now is a compromise.
     
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  20. SimonW

    Staff Member Admin Moderator P.L.24/25 Entrant Qatar 2022 Entrant

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    The thing is with FFP in Jan is the players may be cheaper and come with less negative baggage. As I said most of the free agents right now are either asking for stupid amounts as they are motivated more by money or there are certain concerns about them that are putting all clubs off. And you also have the ability in Jan to move people out. If they spend the budget on free agents then to bring in the preferred players in jan they would have to move players out first, if they don’t spend all the budget on free agents they can go after the preferred targets right away and when they later move people out they can go for the second priority ones
     
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