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Utility Firms going ………Chaos in the market place

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Bigrod, Sep 29, 2021.

  1. Bigrod

    Staff Member Moderator P.L.24/25 Entrant P.L. 20/21 Top 30 Qatar 2022 Entrant Supporter

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    My Gas/Electric deal with Avro, was due to expire at the end of August. I shopped around and found the best deal with Igloo.
    Started the switch process.
    On the 15/9/2021 Avro took a Direct Debit from me.
    Like all these things it took longer and finally completed on 18/9/2021.
    I was in credit with Avro, so looking forward to a rebate.
    On 20/9/2021 Igloo took a Direct Debit from me.
    Avro go bump on 22/9/2021.
    I contact my bank to see if I can reduce (rather than cancel) my Avro DD pending the account being closed by their administrator appointed replacement Octopus Energy.
    I notify Octopus that I had transferred to Igloo and didn’t require their supply, but wanted the credit back.
    They sent me several messages acknowledging what I had said and others saying my account will transfer to them!
    Today Igloo goes bust.
    I wait to see if the administrator transfers me to yet another fuel supplier!
    So potentially four different fuel suppliers in one month.
    How on earth have they been allowed to operate in such a manner, when they haven’t got sufficient funds to accommodate fluctuations in international fuel prices.
    What an utter mess.
    Got to put this down to the lack of Government oversight and appropriate regulation. Utter chaos yet again.
    My monthly bill has gone up by a third, thankfully I can cover that, but others could struggle.
     
    Jayteebee, vladimir, RCarol and 2 others like this.
  2. Hulmebantam

    P.L.24/25 Entrant Supporter

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    Just had an email advising our bill is going up £45.00 a month.

    Can afford it, but like you say, there will be plenty of people who will really be struggling.
     
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  3. trevor

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    The joys of a free market economy,
     
    Jayteebee, vladimir, Bronco and 2 others like this.
  4. Bigrod

    Staff Member Moderator P.L.24/25 Entrant P.L. 20/21 Top 30 Qatar 2022 Entrant Supporter

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    People lulled into a fake situation. Appalling. In essence promising something which they couldn’t deliver as they didn’t have the funds to cover fluctuations in the market. They shouldn’t have been given a licence to operate.
     
    trevor likes this.
  5. bantam65

    P.L. 23/24 Top 10 P.L.24/25 Entrant Supporter

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    M supplier suggested last month that I up my payment by about £25....I didn't bother.
    This morning they upped them off their own back...feckin livid.
    I live on my own in a small 2 bed cottage and now pay £110 a feckin month. Feckin robbery!
     
  6. Bigrod

    Staff Member Moderator P.L.24/25 Entrant P.L. 20/21 Top 30 Qatar 2022 Entrant Supporter

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  7. Allotment Bantam

    Euro24 PL Entrant P.L.24/25 Entrant P.L. 20/21 Top 30 Qatar 2022 Entrant Euro 2020

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    Similar position here. We were with Ebico who went bust last year. We were moved to British Gas and stayed with them as they honoured the deal we were on until the end of August. We then moved to Igloo. Haven't got the credit back from British Gas yet. We then worried about prices going up so moved again to a good fixed 2 year deal with Sainsbury's Energy. We move to them on Saturday, or should do, but now Igloo are bust and they owe us money too! I am hoping our 2 year fixed deal isn't hijacked at the last minute too.
     
  8. Bigrod

    Staff Member Moderator P.L.24/25 Entrant P.L. 20/21 Top 30 Qatar 2022 Entrant Supporter

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    It’s the lack of honesty which gets me.

    It may well be that the price your now on reflects the raw cost.

    It was the con that these companies enticed people with ‘headline’ prices which they could not sustain.

    This Government has allowed the proliferation of these companies which are unfit for purpose.
     
    RCarol likes this.
  9. Dennis

    Staff Member Moderator Supporter

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    I don't believe the firms have been dishonest. It's that the business model used by the new entrants is a deeply flawed one.

    The big boys - EDF, EON, BG, SSE etc - all have generating capacity or involvement in gas production back up the line. And that's where they make most of their profits. The big boys can weather the storms because as energy prices go up on the wholesale markets, their generation side takes the benefit. The new boys who are basically retailers, buy energy on the wholesale markets and sell the energy into the retail market. And therein lies the problem. Most retail customers buy their energy on fixed price deals from energy suppliers. The energy prices in the wholrsale markets are not fixed price but are a combination of spot prices and forward prices with some hedging as an insurance policy. When wholesale prices increase - as they have done - the energy retailers are squeezed and go under if squeezed too much as we've seen. They have little resilience.

    Ofgem used to stress test all energy companies to ensure that they had the headroom to absorb major fluctuations in energy prices. This was particularly important to the energy retailers who didn't have the back up as generators etc. This stress testing was quietly dropped a few years ago and instead the Govt asked other providers to step in if a reatiler found itself in trouble. There were lots of warnings about the consequences of these changes but the warnings were ignored. And this is what is now playing out. It's chaotic - not helped by the UK's over reliance on gas, the reduced storage it now has after closing acouple of huge storage facilities in the N Sea and below average winds - and unfortunately the market in energy retailing is falling apart. It's a shame for the small companies and their customers as many are now experiencing. Better regulation in energy markets is required.
     
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    Interested Bystander likes this.
  10. Bigrod

    Staff Member Moderator P.L.24/25 Entrant P.L. 20/21 Top 30 Qatar 2022 Entrant Supporter

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    Basically when you enter into a contract, you do so on a basis of trust. You trust the seller to provide the goods for the agreed price. Consumers do not have the inside knowledge to evaluate whether or not a seller has enough resilience, to provide the agreed supply.

    It would be interesting to know who the minister was who signed off the reduction in safeguards.

    I absolutely agree that better (fit for purpose) regulation should be introduced.
     
  11. Dennis

    Staff Member Moderator Supporter

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    If you want to enter into a contract on the basis of trust, be very careful. Caveat emptor and all that.

    But having said that, I think every customer in a monopoly market such as energy retailing should expect the regulator to be looking after the customer's interests. And I don't believe that has been the case for some time in the retail energy market. We wouldn't have this mess if the Govt and the regulator hadn't been asleep at the wheel for some time ignoring the warning signs and the advice provided to them.
     
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  12. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    The problem is those chasing market share we’re hoping that the price they pay didnt rise much and didn’t buy futures or anything to cover the current eventuality. Other firms planned longer term and tied themself into slightly higher priced contracts but longer term and thus avoiding the fluctuations.
    It is the free market economy where the customer is chasing the cheapest deal
     
    Hulmebantam likes this.
  13. Get Rid Of It

    P.L. 20/21 Top 20 Supporter

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    I blame Martin Lewis OBE,

    Wife listened to him and felt swapping from EON online to unheard of Igloo would save us money.
    It did for a few months, then they started to put price up but now awaiting ofgem to link us to a new supplier.
    Because of the current increase in tariff next years bills are going to continue to be high.
    £30-£60 increases are going to hit those that struggle the hardest.
     
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  14. Stafford Bantam

    Staff Member Moderator P.L. 20/21 Top 30 Supporter

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    Most of the smaller suppliers are expected to fail and, of the larger ones, Bulb are definitely struggling. There was a suggestion recently that, by the end of the year, there may be as few as 6 to 10 energy suppliers remaining.

    These seem to be the 10 most likely to survive but, with the market being as volatile as it is, even this lot are a long way from being guaranteed to survive:
    British Gas
    E.on
    EDF
    OVO (incorporating SSE)
    Octopus
    Pure Planet
    Scottish Power
    Shell
    So Energy
    Utility Warehouse
     
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  15. bantam65

    P.L. 23/24 Top 10 P.L.24/25 Entrant Supporter

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    If Bulb (My supplier) go bust.....do any monies they hold of mine die with them and do I just become a creditor or the money ringfennced and therefore safe?
    If it dies, I'm going to cancel my direct debit.
     
  16. Stafford Bantam

    Staff Member Moderator P.L. 20/21 Top 30 Supporter

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    If Bulb go bust, any credit they have of yours is protected.

    Normally, you would be transferred to a SoLR (Supplier of Last Resort), but as it's possble no one would be able/willing to take on Bulb's 1.7 million customers, you may be transferred to a special administrator (a sort of government owned company) at least for a while. Whoever you ended up with, your energy rates would almost certainly be at the cap (which goes up by around 12% tomorrow and is forecast to go up by a further 14% in April).
     
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    bantam65 likes this.
  17. bantam65

    P.L. 23/24 Top 10 P.L.24/25 Entrant Supporter

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    Cheers....
     
  18. bantam65

    P.L. 23/24 Top 10 P.L.24/25 Entrant Supporter

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    According to what Bulb want to charge me I will be paying over the Oct increase price of £1277. My reckoning is 12 x 110.54 = 1326.38.
    How does that work then?
     
  19. Stafford Bantam

    Staff Member Moderator P.L. 20/21 Top 30 Supporter

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    The headline cap of £1,277 is not the maximum that can be charged, it is merely an indicative maximum based on a defined 'average' energy usage. The actual amount for each household will vary according to their individual usage and also the region that they are in.
     
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    Allotment Bantam likes this.
  20. bantam65

    P.L. 23/24 Top 10 P.L.24/25 Entrant Supporter

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    Ok mate....clear as feckin mud. Seems like a waste of time setting a "cap" then allowing the fleecing feckers to charge what they like.
     

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