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UK Energy Needs

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by trevor, Feb 12, 2022.

  1. trevor

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    While the Uk has enough shale gas to make us independent of importing gas and even exporting it to others the green Lobby are demanding our two fracking sites are sealed for good with concrete, The government is going to agree because of the green lobby who are now in charge of our energy supply which while making them feel good will drive the poor to destitution and starvation as we import more and more gas at higher and higher prices, We need to wake up and get a better balance because after all the green Lobby demands we will never be carbon free
     
  2. Campbell's soup

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    Just get Kurt Zouma to go kick the fck out of all the wildlife and get ‘crackin wiv da frackin’
     
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  3. Nottsy

    Nottsy Squad Player

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    As long it’s not happening near where you live no one will give a shit.
     
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  4. bantam65

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    Pardon the edit.
     
  5. Stafford Bantam

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    I take it, from your comments, you are not aware of the economics of energy production and supply in the UK.

    Have a look at the costs of producing energy and then come back and explain why you want us all to pay even more for our energy.
     
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  6. Nottsy

    Nottsy Squad Player

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    Permission to laugh if they find a rich seam in Trevs back garden.
     
  7. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    Isn’t shale gas on average about double the cost of other gas sources?

    suppose that may have changed in past couple of year but I’d guess if cost of other gas has risen so will shale gas
     
  8. trevor

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    The cost of shale gas is falling rapidly to such an extent that the major fracking development country USA is now self sufficient in gas and is now exporting it making huge profits, In the next 20 years we will be in the position where instead of importing 40% of our gas like today it will increase to 80% maybe 90% of our gas will be imported at world prices we will have no control over, We will have little if any energy security and at the mercy of other countries to control our supply, If we Frack here the UK will be self sufficient and have such a surplus we can sell to the world instead of buying it
     
  9. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    What are the comparative costs currently fly then?
     
  10. Stafford Bantam

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    The problem with the energy market, in the UK, is that the cost of producing is very different from the market price. At the moment the market price is being driven by gas, which is one of the most expensive forms of energy.

    Unfortunately, like a number of other countries, we are also heavily dependent on gas for our electricity production, which means we are also one of the most expensive countries when it comes to electricity production as well.

    In basic terms, we need to get out of gas as much as possible. Some industries are reliant on gas, but there is no economic sense in using gas for electricity production, nor for heating homes. We should have been moving away from gas sooner, but recent hikes in the cost of gas have dramatically brought the situation to a head.

    One thing @trevor@trevor is absolutely right about is the need to become more self sufficient for our energy. If we can move the domestic market away from gas, then we should be able to become self sufficient to meet industrial gas demand.
     
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  11. trevor

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    It is a nonsense that we have one of the worlds largest oil and gas reserves but the green lobby stop us developing it, They cry renewables but never mention that in the past year the renewables left us short of energy for long periods and the carbon fuel generators had to be used again, We have to buy Electricity from France who have spare because they have over 70 nuclear power stations and are now building another bunch of them to stave off gas reliance
     
  12. Stafford Bantam

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    The reason we were left short, was not because of the renewables, it was because of the lack of electricity storage in this country.

    Whilst nuclear is a lot cheaper than coal, oil or gas, it is still more expensive than wind or solar. The problem is that the accompanying electricity storage wasn't built at the same time (and, largely, still hasn't), which is a crying shame, as the north sea is the largest source of synthetic graphite, a key component in high capacity battery storage.

    So, not only have we messed up with our reliance on gas, we haven't even got our renewables strategy right.
     
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  13. trevor

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    It was still a shortage because there was not enough wind to power the turbines that could easily happen again
     
  14. Stafford Bantam

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    That's where the storage (we haven't yet built) should come in, it holds and releases the energy when it's required. We've just been madly building the wind turbines, without the storage, so that, at times, we don't have enough and at other times we have too much (we actually have to turn off power stations).

    Mind you the chaos (of not having sufficient storage) allows some individuals to take financial advantage of this situation. Did you know that there is an energy company that supplies free electricity at times, and sometimes even pays you to use their electricity?
     
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  15. trevor

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    I understand your comments on future electricity storage but seeing as the government closed our gas storage facilities just when it would have helped against price rises I am not confident they would do it. You have to understand the main Tory mantra they believe in most in that you allow the market to decide price
     
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  16. Offcomedun

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    Which is why they are such a flawed government. A government's first and paramount duty is to its people, not to a slavish adherence to right wing free market ideology. In many instances, the market is the best arbiter of price, supply etc. But when you are talking about essential public utilities like energy (not to mention transport, education, health etc etc ad nauseum) then the market cannot be allowed to be the sole arbiter - the government has to play it's part in managing the market (eg by ensuring adequate gas storage facilities) or by directly intervening in other ways.
     
  17. Offcomedun

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    You say this like it's a good thing, when it's appallingly bad for the planet. The USA is the biggest per capita polluter on earth. Instead of investing sufficiently in solar, wind and wave power it is doubling down on burning gas, creating yet more pollution and global warming. And that's without considering the other environmentally damaging aspects of fracking. We need to get away from reliance on gas and we need the USA to lead the way, not compound the problem.
     
  18. trevor

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    So you are happy to import it and use it but not happy to use our own supplies?
     
  19. Offcomedun

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    Yes, because the very last thing we should be doing is expanding the gas market. We should be weaning ourselves off gas by massively expanding renewable electricity generation. As well as onshore wind and solar we have over 7,500 miles of coastline we should be better using for wind farms and wave-powered generation. And expanding the energy storage to cope with fluctuations. Exacerbating pollution, global warming and environmental vandalism by fracking for shale gas is the worse kind of muddle-headed short-termism.
    This is where governments have to take control and actually govern to protect our children's and grandchildren's future, not leave essential strategic decisions to the vagaries of the market.
     
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  20. trevor

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    All very good and although a dream for the future we can only hope that without gas which we import from around the world at increasing costs that here on planet earth the heating and lights will not go off in the meantime and the elderly do not die in bigger amounts then they do already due to fuel poverty,
    it is always the same in that those that will not suffer sit in ivory clouds making decisions for those that will
     

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