Most liked posts in thread: Safe Standing at Valley Parade

Edin has always being supportive of it. I can see us installing it should the government allow it

 

Or they are supporting it because it looks good to a section of the fans but in reality they know it will not happen any time soon so it does’t matter

 

A few points, as I understand them:

It is not directly illegal to stand in a seated area of a UK football ground under UK legislation.

When you buy a ticket, you have to comply with ground regulations or you are in breach of contract. The League has guideline ground regulations that say you should not stand in seated areas. Club regulations will probably all be near enough identical. Standing thus results in breach of contract and could possibly lead to you losing your contractual rights, i.e. you could be ejected and/or lose your ticket without compensation.

Safety certificates are issued by councils for grounds or individual stands. There are guidelines on fan density. Density for seated fans is actually higher than for unseated fans, who are allocated more width, so allowing fans to stand necessitates a greater space allocated. Allowing people to stand and not allocating more space could lead to withdrawal of the safety certificate and a stand or ground being closed down. (I presume this means new safe standing areas would be less dense, to the possible detriment of atmosphere.)

I do not know about insurance but strongly suspect the small print will indicate necessary compliance with ground regulations and safety certificates. If so, this would render the club uninsured if they did not routinely take reasonable steps to prevent people standing. Again, I do not know, but suspect that not being insured for an event would make holding it illegal in UK law. Thus, standing in a seated area of a football ground could well indirectly be technically illegal through lack of insurance if a club do not take reasonable steps to try prevent it.

This is all likely to be much like laws and regulations before the tragedies at City and Hillsborough. Lots of clubs and authorities were turning blind eyes or bending rules because there were "grey areas" or they were difficult or expensive to enforce. Loss-making clubs sometimes made plans to comply when they found the money and regulators did not want to shut down historic clubs if they felt it eventually might get done. It took tragedies to test the rules, show us where many clubs were not complying and the consequences it could bring. I took tragedies to encourage extra funding to be made available to achieve compliance. I hope standing in seated areas never gets tested in this way.

I am not really for or against building safe standing areas but fans in favour might want to consider that acoustics are pretty good at City and away fans regularly comment on the impressive noise is at bigger matches. Moving some fans into a new safe standing area with potentially lower density could spoil that in the same way encouraging City fans into the TL Dallas with discounted tickets did a few years ago, and out of the old Bradford End and onto the roofless Kop through a registration card scheme did in the 80s. Move the fans around after they have settled into the noisiest acoustic arrangement for any given ground and and you might actually kill the atmosphere rather than improve it.

More pressingly, the problem of conflict between standers and sitters at away matches really needs sorting since it causes regular fights. Is it really too much trouble to organise standers at the back and sitters at the front so everyone can be happy, which will likely add a bit to tickets sold and revenue received? I'm sure clubs could organise this - that is IF standing was NOT a breach of contract and possibly indirectly illegal. While standing is not allowed, they won't organise it. Could fans themselves encourage it, maybe? Legislation, contract law and hassle/money worries are still stopping clubs and regulators from sorting out a threat to safety!

 

@Bigrod - Don't forget your tape measure tonight.

 

Bollocks to the football tonight, i want the exact dimensions of the Valley Parade terracing goddammit.

 

An interesting view on the current proposals. Also includes random photo of City players at Wembley.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/oct/18/safe-standing-barriers-are-anything-but-says-former-wembley-stadium-manager?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

 

Totally agree. Having sat down for the last 22 years (in the same seat) I wont be rushing to join it

 

Reminds me of the last bit of dialogue in the Towering Inferno...................

McQueen - "You know we were lucky tonight. Body count's less than 200. One of these days you're gonna kill 5,000 in one of these fire traps, and I'm gonna keep eating schmoke and bringing out bodies, until somebody asks us how to build them"
Newman - "Ok, I'm Asking"
McQueen - "You know where to reach me. So long architect"

 

Nothing is 100% safe but this is as close as you'll get it's safer than both the old style terracing and fans standing up in seated areas.
The main safety issues with old style terraces were:
- the risk of crushing from multiple rows surging forward which is eliminated with this as every row has a barrier
- overcrowding in areas due to fans not having a set place to go which was a big factor behind Hillsborough but this is eradiated as long as people stand at the seat number on their ticket
The main safety issue with standing in seated areas is from people falling backwards or forwards as there is nothing to stop them falling with the seats being low, this is eradicated with the barriers in front and behind people.

There is no big safety risk with this and has been in place around Europe for a number of years with no serious injury or death due to the safe standing areas.

 

Don't really understand why people are against this. Not like it would take up the whole ground. You could easily sit somewhere else.

 

Not against it per say, but I am now used to sitting so wouldn't change. I also dont believe it is worth the cost.

 

Bottom tier Bradford End….Bingo……

No one has to move from their favoured seat and make use of a wasted space

Good noise carrier for the songster?

Segregation could be sorted with access to the upper tier from the Midland Rd side end block with a walkway across?

Gives home fans an extra block on Midland Rd?

Job done.

 

Someone has just spent a bundle of cash on new seats for that bottom tier, can't imagine them being happy

 

Makes sense. I always view the posts from members I want to put on ignore.

Like @JonButterfield

 

Oh, and @Hoochy-Min

 

That's all it needs

 

Don't bother. I've posted it.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/04/09/government-rejects-west-brom-request-introduce-safe-standing/

 

Yes only had to goggle "government safe standing" and it gave a similar link to West Brom.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43701400

Sports minister Tracey Crouch says there are no plans to change the all-seater policy at football stadiums.

This is an interesting comment : The standing positions would have been offered to both home and away supporters, I thought it would just be available (if granted) to home fans.

 

It is only debated in Westminster Hall, Rather than in the House of Commons. The debates are usually poorly attended and have no real influence on things