Home V Newport County Saturday 7/12/2019

I get your point of wanting more, but we are in a great position to do so this season.

On your Sheff point, one of the main reasons the fans were embarrassed is mainly because of how much they spent and still couldn't get promoted. For example, in 15/16 season they finished 11th but had wage budget of £11.3 million, 2nd largest in L1 history only behind Wigan's £11.9m budget that season. When they did go up, they had a just over 10 million wage budget alone along with spending nearly £1.5 million on known transfers along with a few undisclosed and guys like Fleck on a free msot likely on big money for the division. Miles ahead of the rest of the pack. They had a similar 17-18,000 season ticket sale number to us that season, however the average ticket in L1 was just under £300 per adult, nearly double ours that season.

If you spend that kind of cash in the lower leagues, the fans do have more of a right to expect a return. Until we start blowing teams out the water financially, I don't think it's fair to expect us to run away with the league.

 

Another happy cheap punter with low expectations of the club!

Yeah!!!!

 

Never knew their spend was so big... Damn.

 

The problem with having a grand plan and trying to compete at the top is football is a totally unrealistic bubble where the only chance of success is to lose an absolute ton of money.

It isn't skill, it isn't ambition, it isn't planning, it's disposable millions that matter.

 

It's not worth debating with you Fordy, I could look at the last 1000 posts of yours and they are all identical. Tell me which part you don't agree with in what I've said and lets talk about it rather spouting the same cliches you do all day every day.

 

I'd argue that it's a combination of all 4.

 

All good points. My underlying despondency is really about the reality that we'll never be more than a fair to middling League 1 club, perhaps with the odd spell in League 2.

The championship is a brilliant, brilliant league. I desperately want us to have a seat at that table. I see other clubs from smaller towns find the funding and means of getting there.

I'm lucky. I was a child of the 80s so I saw a few genuinely talented sides. It pains me that my own son probably wont ever get to enjoy it, certainly not in his youth.

 

I find as an older fan a little uncalled for, but hardly unexpected, you really do need to have more respect for other Bradford City fans opinion.

The cheap ticket debate has been done to death most accepting prices go up crowds go down which then translates into lower revenue from merchandise, food, drink and hospitality, costing the club money long term.

Don't know what the hell your third comment is supposed to mean, charity shop ?.

Bradford City under Rhodes and Rupp are going forward have you not noticed the league table, it doesn't lie.

Well Rupp has said he wants to get us back to where we were when they purchased the club, that in itself suggests to most reasonable Bradford City fans he wants us to be a club challenging for promotion to the Championship.

How would you know about Bowyer being one of the most boring managers in the clubs history, another off the top of your head comment.

 

Not to reopen the debate Dave, but I'd disagree that most City fans accept that view. I think it's very much polarised with as many thinking the a well managed price increase is key to growing the club, and that people choose whether to buy an ST on value, not price. I accept others have a different position though.

 

Think it's definitely a question of balance. Recognising priorities, aims and objectives.For example, increasing the price may be thought of as valid ..if there is entertainment value as a spectator and if there is optimism and confidence in progression on the pitch through investment current and future in the team. But where there is an air of uncertainty and negativity through results, style of play etc choices become less palatable and fans become indifferent. Results are of prime importance, even though most will support through thick and thin. Obviously, we have lost thousands of floaters, simply through failures, irrespective of incentives. You are only as good as your last result, important in rekindling interest and capturing the imagination which is essential in transferring into ST's.

 

No problem, we can debate all day but we will never know until it actually happens, it wouldn't have any effect on my supporting of the club I'm not sure others would be happy, you only have to read some of the posts from what I class as die hard's who are pissed off with whats on show this season a price rise might keep them away until they saw the team were performing better and looked like they were going places.
I honestly believe the best chance of testing the water was after Stuarts first season after the Wembley game, but both Rahic & Rupp said they wanted to fill the ground with fans with cheap tickets rather than half full of fans generating similar revenue.
I'm not sure the increase in season ticket prices in any way is a guide to how well we do as a club, yes more monies obtained from season tickets should give the manager a better budget, but the calculation has to be done into where that break even figure has to be to generate more revenue from the reduced fan base, I'm sure there would be fans who could not afford a drastic increase dad & two kids as an example, it would have to be a drastic increase to make any inroads into generating more revenue.
What sort of figure do you believe would need to be asked to do as you suggest "to grow the club".

 

Sorry last time I looked we were in div 2 and in the play off spots. That's hardly moving forward.

Serious question what does Rhodes bring to the table and how is he moving the club forward? It's just love like it was when he owned us but then he had no money.

As for Mr Rupp he's worth 150m and seems currently doesn't want to invest in the club to move it forward. Do you know something others don't?

If we don't go up then what? Seriously I see Admin if we don't go up. I worry about the club more than i did under Rhodes and Lawn that can't be right.

 

Timing is key and I agree that we missed a massive opportunity after the playoff final loss. Prices should've gone up, Stuart should've been backed, the squad should've been retained and we should've added the 2-3 quality players that would've turned us into automatic promotion candidates - but we all know what happened!!

Price increases need to be a part of a demonstrable plan for growing the club. You also need a viable strategy, led by capable professionals who're empowered to deliver. You put prices up when you're on an upward trajectory and we'd probably have to do it in small(ish) increments initially. If we go up, prices should go up by 25-50 quid for an adult ST. If we don't, then we'll probably have to freeze them because the turgid style of play we have will be a deterrent on its own.

I don't think we should necessarily jump straight to these levels, but I'd imagine a pricing structure along the lines of:

League 1:
Adult ST = £230. Tenner a game marketing type approach. Hardly expensive in relation to the game.
U16 and OAP = £100 for the first, any more priced at £75
U11 = £50
Matchday tickets at £20 for adults, £10 for U16s and £5 for U11s

Championship:

Adult ST = £300 - then rising with inflation for every year we were there

U16 and OAP = £150 for the first, any more priced at £100
U11 = £75
Matchday tickets at £25 for adults, £15 for U16s and £10 for U11s £

That's still very competitively priced, still looks to make the game affordable for families etc. Done right, in parallel with an improving team that was a mixture of successful and enjoyable to watch, fans wouldn't leave. I'm certain of it.

A lack of progress is a bigger deterrent. I have no intention of coming back to watch League 2 football next year.​

 

I'll refer you to the answer @BradfordBanter offered earlier, you haven't addressed one of my replies.
https://bantamtalk.com/index.php?threads/home-v-newport-county-saturday-7-12-2019.3319/page-21#post-286614

 

Rhodes & Lawn had limited finances they could put into the club, as we were often reminded to give Parky a decent budget we ran a deficit that would need to be covered by either selling an asset or have a Cup run, so we know up to a point promotion from league two to league one shouldn't be impossible on a reasonable player budget, I don't think there is a wide gulf in leagues one and two, the trouble starts when you get to the Championship.
As we moved up from league two (where we have 13,000+ season ticket holders I believe) to league one which should increase our fan base, that is the time we need to look at what as a club us fans want because the difference between what we are getting as a good league one club to being a Championship club can't be covered by the extra fans (if that makes sense) we had 18/19,000 in our best supported league one days so there is very little scope for retaining low season ticket prices as the money generated by those extra 3/4,000 fans could not cover Championship salary's, that has to be generated by either increasing season ticket prices or the owner finances it, as you say a delicate situation to handle as and when they have to take the decision to increased season ticket prices based on our success/league we are playing in.

 

Indeed. All I was pointing out is that anyone coming to VP to watch 4th division football should expect on average not to be entertained with free flowing tikka takka style football but with what we are generally seeing.

Opposition teams are increasingly coming to VP shutting up shop, time wasting and trying to rag a 1-0 away win in the ugliest of manners.

None of that is down to GB or the city players. Its easy to say well deal with it but anyone who has been at VP will see that refereeing standards are shocking and not dealing with it.

Its hard to try and play football if the opposition-eg Newport, are just kicking you, falling down at any opportunity, slow throw ins, slow dead balls, kicking the ball away etc etc.

Now on Saturday once we scored Newport suddenly began trying to play and their time wasting etc quickly ended. Then it was us that started to time waste *ahem* game manage.

I am as frustrated as anyone when away teams basically try to kill the game but I expect it and as long as we score the first goal in a game then I expect we will go on and win.

 

Why would we go into Admin?

 

Just don’t get what odds it makes. It isn’t the reason Sheffield United are successful now and never will be a reason a club is successful.

Sheffield United appointed a really really good manager and they are reaping the rewards.
Sunderland fans do nothing but moan but yet find themselves no further forward and actually slipping down the league table into mid table at best. And that’s because they’ve got the wrong man in charge.

we can demand all we want but makes no odds to what happens on the pitch.

 

I'd suggest they have had the wrong manager in charge since Roy Keane got them back to the Premiership :
Ricky Sbragia
Steve Bruce
Martin O'Neil
Paolo Di Canio
Gus Poyet
Dick Advocaat
Sam Alladyce
David Moyes
Simon Grayson
Chris Coleman
Jack Ross
Phil Parkinson

 

correct. Harsh to sack Ross who was unlucky in the play off final really. Lost to a last minute goal.