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Donald Trump

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Zonnebloem, May 30, 2024.

  1. Salty

    Salty Impact Sub

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    Unfortunately the playground is full of bullies. Sadly being reasonable won't achieve anything other than continuing a war with no winner
     
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  2. Bronco

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    At the end of the day I think most recognise Putin will not give up land he's gained, now if that has to be a part of any piece deal surely it's better than war and the needless slaughter of both Ukrainian and Russian troops, as for Trump being a Putin puppet he's the only one who's seriously tried to bring this situation to an end and that has got to have some merit ?.
     
    #562 Bronco, Mar 13, 2025
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2025
  3. Onside

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    What price will we all pay both in terms of human life and borders being moved to accommodate Putin’s need to go back into history for both land and power? There are no easy wins here. Yes we can ask Ukraine to give up their ppl and land to Putin to stop the war. However, without consequences for Putin in the here and now what is to stop taking another bite out of Ukraine or another country?

    £300 billion pounds in banks across Europe that he cannot get access too might be used to build Ukraine. However, stealing money on an international scale is not a good look and the consequences for future in reluctance to invest in any country that has taken part. I have read that our beloved Donald will bring Russia to its knees financially if it doesn’t stop bombing Ukraine. Yet another ill thought out policy. He could not only increase the bombing but he may decide to take a pop at any other country in retaliation. Probably not America 1st though .

    Appeasement never works with men like Putin, they just see it as weakness. This war is costing our own country a lot of money but thankfully not lives yet!
     
  4. Tony Wilkinson

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    Solutions to this problem go way beyond us Mrs O, they can go on about climate change but for me communism and/or religions present much bigger threats to our survival....
     
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  5. Onside

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    Of course, but we mustn’t get drawn into thinking that this can all be solved by Tuesday. Trump wants a quick solution as he promised when campaigning. For this is going to take a well thought out solution which cannot be done overnight. Everyone has to fully understand there will be consequences which ever solutions we adopt.
    I think that we have to put on hold indefinitely the climate change agenda until other countries catch up. I have had a heat pump for 2 1/2 years. We love it, but it is not cheap as all the climate change subsidies are born by electricity users in order to keep gas prices down.
     
  6. Tony Wilkinson

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    Can't see Putin giving up anything, it's not how he thinks, he's winning and will just carry on feeding the meat grinder 'til he is stopped...
     
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  7. Rogered Tart

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    Rich people playing rich peoples games Tone.
     
  8. Dennis

    Staff Member Moderator Supporter

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    Exactly. The idea that Putin can be trusted to abide with an agreement to suspend or better stop the war is beyond belief.

    He has said he wants to enlarge the Russian 'empire' and that really means in a westward direction. He invaded Crimea and promised not to repeat it. The west did nothing. He invaded Georgia and tried to grt his puppet elected as president. The Russians are still there. He organised 'military exercises' with his bestie in Belarus and said they were not relevant to Ukraine. The west averted their gaze. A couple of months later those same troops with their tanks and artillery were invading a sovereign state. He's spent 3 years trying to destroy Ukraine, the bread basket of Europe and is currently attacking Odessa, Ukraine's only remaining port.

    If he is allowed to retain most of the land he has already invaded, he will be rewarded for an invasion of a neighbouring and sovereign state. Imagine what will happen next if he gets away with it. Poland? Moldova? Latvia? Lithuania? Estonia? Ukraine won't be the end of it if Europe appeases Putin now. We should be learning from history and taking notice of what Putin has already said and done.
     
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  9. Bronco

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    So how do we bring an end to this conflict, how can you build safe guards into any future agreement that bonds Russia not to continue the aggression into other countries mentioned above, many who are NATO countries, now if the treat of NATO countries responding does not halt Russia is there an answer ?.
     
  10. Rogered Tart

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    Ukraine are losing this conflict, do we really want this war to go on any further with the loss of more life? Russia ain't gonna stop as it stands, is the answer really for the likes of the UK and Starmer to supply yet more military hardware as he announced last week? There is no fluffy cloud everyone's happy end to this war, only more and more bloodshed if it carries on, to a point of the inevitability of Ukraine having to surrender through lack of manpower, its the law of averages. And lets drop this idea of Trump being some sort of Putin puppet, how else can Trump try and bring this to an end? He can't put troops on the ground in back Ukraine, we'd have WW3 on our hands and he knows that only too well. Look, I'd love to see Ukraine given back the territory they see as theirs and some sort of mutual agreement brought but its way beyond that now.
     
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  11. Bronco

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    Totally agree,. hence my question how those calling Russia out for what they did with regards the special military operation which most right minded people agree was hardly a special military operation but a land grab, believe the conflict can be brought to an end, but more so how guarantees could be written into any agreement to end the conflict permanently and Russia will not contemplate doing it again.
    Were given to believe NATO is the counter to the likes of Russia, China, North Korea or any other country that may fancy doing the same as Russia have done in Ukraine and if there are no consequences then the world is screwed, Turkey, Finland, Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia are all members of NATO and border Russia, if Ukraine had been allowed to join NATO would this land grab have happened.

    Reading today Putin is having his forces make a last big effort with regards regaining areas Ukraine have taken before possibly having ceasefire talks, if Russia don't come to the table although Trump says they want to talk with regards a ceasefire which I don't believe and should be taken with a pinch of salt, I think he's trying to prove he can get the conflict resolved in 100 days as he promised the US electorate although I'm not sure the war in Ukraine was the number one concern on the US electorates mind, more like ourselves inflation, utility bills council tax bills etc. if Putin won't get around the table Trump may have no other choice but to continue weaponizing the Ukraine and putting even more draconian sanctions on Russia.
     
    #571 Bronco, Mar 13, 2025
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2025
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  12. Bronco

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  13. Offcomedun

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    Exactly this. Neville Chamberlain came back from Munich waving a written promise from Hitler not to go beyond Czechoslovakia and proclaimed, “Peace in our time”. How well did that go?
    Putin has exactly the same designs on ex-Soviet states as Hitler did on Western Europe and is exactly as trustworthy as Hitler was. Anyone who believes that, if allowed to keep the annexed parts of Ukraine that he invaded, Putin will stop there is either on drugs, deluded or congenitally naive.
    What Trump has done since coming to office has further emboldened Putin and seriously endangered the security of Europe. But, unlike previous Presidents - who saw the USA as the protector of the western democratic model - Trump doesn’t give a flying feck about European security. In fact, he revels in undermining it because he resents the economic bargaining power of the EU, which is able to put restraints on the less desirable aspects of US corporate trading practices.
    Trump is only interested in status, the exercise of power over other countries and the money that can be made from that. He would happily sell the rest of Europe down the river in a heartbeat, as he has done to Ukraine, if it makes money for the USA. And that includes us, despite the so called ‘special relationship’.
     
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  14. Bronco

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  15. Rogered Tart

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  16. Biker

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  17. Bronco

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    Of course it will be on Putin's terms I've been constant with my take of this shocking situation, but as yet I heard no solution from those berating Trump for tying to bring it to an end, I get it Ukraine are a sovereign nation but with regards the build up to the conflict Ukraine aren't Lilly White, what has been happening in the Donetsk to people who believed they were Russian doesn't seem to be questioned, the Americans have a lot to answer for with regards the May 2014 Elections.
     
  18. Offcomedun

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    Trump gave away all his bargaining chips with Russia when he openly declared that Ukraine cannot be in NATO, will have to accept territorial losses and that USA will not keep funding Ukraine arms or provide security guarantees.
    Every single negotiating point given away before even starting negotiations. So much for ‘the art of the deal’. Pathetic.
     
  19. Offcomedun

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    In 2008 Putin said to George W Bush- “You understand George, Ukraine is not even a proper country”.
    Trump is is now saying basically the same thing about Canada. He seriously believes it should be part of the USA. The man is nuts.
     
  20. Offcomedun

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    And, having achieved his aim of annexing Eastern Ukraine, when Putin then starts marching into other European countries would you say the same thing?
     

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