Brexit

Ouch - thats another personal insult. And yet I have refrained from doing so myself for the past few posts.

I do applaud the double think you engage in. Its miraculous, a brexiteer calling me a bigot whilst complaining that he himself is the victim of insults.

Its almost like there is no cure for stupidity or something along those lines.

 

Or you could look at it as being a country voted to be treated as an independent country and then cries when it is treated like an independent country.

 

Not really because I don't think the expectation is that some other organisation is going to grab assets they have no right to and restrict their lawful delivery.

That's banana republic stuff.

 

Or you could look at it as being a political union who takes care of its citizens first. And you are only just finding this out now.

 

Oh you mean like when someone breaks the law in a 'limited and specific way' i wonder where the EU learned that one from.

Any more reasons why you are right?

 

Mis-placed patriotism doesnt result in actual patriotism.

Patriotism goes beyond flag waving and cups of tea. Its about protecting the people through the countries ability to project global power. To keep wanning commodity prices low. To prevent global powers from exerting influence. Basic geo political concepts. Out of the EU we cant project our power or source the same levels of inward investment.

I dont deny you love your country.

 

Thats two of your posts today that I have enjoyed...

I agree i am not the majority here or amongst remainers. Do I care? never stopped Nigel Farage did it?

 

We can't source the same levels of inward investment but yet Nissan continue to invest in the UK and close Spanish plants, that's a multi billion pound company.

 

I hope those who were up in arms quoting what a despicable government we had that were passing a law that would break international law after discovering that the withdrawal agreement will enable the EU to partially partition the UK down the Irish sea, although many said at the time it was our insurance policy and would not be used, are now as critical of our neigbours over the channel, yet another myth it's only the Brits that play dirty.

 

Yes, like that. Which was also wrong to do.

This is the great thing about being balanced, I can say the UK was wrong to break the law in that way and the EU are wrong to try to withhold vaccines. Great isn't it? Although I'm not sure the effects of the two things are the same.

Only a properly blinkered Europhile would say that they are right to withhold those crucial vaccines despite other countries actually contracting with the manufacturers far in advance. Nothing really surpprises me.

I take it you're just going to give up on how he people of the EU can democratically remove Stella Kyriakides from her position if they disagree with her then?

 

We did try to stay in the customs union but the EU declined our plan to both be in the union while been open to sign customs deals with other countries like the USA and China, So we are out of the EU customs union where most of the problems are arising, Personally I would have stayed in for two more years to keep trade simple while finalising other trade deals.

 

Listen, I only studied the EU for one semester over 14 years ago so maybe im wrong. But as far as i understand it she is appointed by elected officials and she has a 5 year term in office. Then other people are appointed by the newly elected officials and so on and so forth. Which by my reckoning is no different to here. How can we get rid of our MPs within a 5 year period? we cant, its up to the PM.

Unless im being stupid then it would be disingenuous to see that as being a democratic defecit given the way a proportional representation system works alongside the fact that the most lauded democracies in history contain a degree of unelected officials. Instead its used as a tool to see these people as being some sort of criminal political class.

If I sound condescending then i apologise. But the idea that the UK or any EU nation is constrained by some kind of oligarchical kleptocracy is far fetched. The very fact we have left the EU, rather ironically, proves we always retained sovereignty. The true sovereignty that is needed for self determination not the faux sovereignty that determines rules of trade.

Its clear I wound you up and the use of 'europhile' is probably correct. But lets get this straight, I only see the EU as a tool for the UK to fend off bigger powers. I dont like the American influence and found that the EU gave them less influence over us. I felt that Russia, China and even the growing India would be a threat to us. Some militarily but all in terms of resources and dwindeling commodities. The Indian middle class is soon to be near 300million people. They will want all the nice things we have. That will mean we will be competing for less resources which drives up prices. As a small independent nation I see no historical exception whereby the smaller guy wins.

The EU is a way for us to compete by pooling our power and working together. We could call it the united states of britain france and germany for all i care. Call it the 'shithouse' call it whatever its just that we need to use that system to protect what we have here in the UK. To stay on top.

 

This is a genuine question. No BS.

Do you understand the basic premise of the customs union and therefore the reason why we couldnt be both in it and able to make our own free trade deals? Like honestly?

They are not compatible on basic levels. Please, what am i missing here that makes you think both goals could be obtained. Im genuinely trying to understand you.

 

Much like the teething problems we see at the borders. This is an exception to the rule.

 

I'm not asking about within the 5 year term though. I'm clearly asking about when it comes to elections.

When it comes to election time if the people in Matt Hancock's constituency feel like he's done a poor job then they vote for a different candidate. If the people across the country feel like he's done a poor enough job they vote against his party.

What is the democratic equivalent for Stella Kyriakides? Who do people vote for to stop her being appointed again? It shouldn't be this difficult, knowing who you have to vote for to cause a very simple effect shouldn't be this complicated.

Like you I don't like the overarching control of the US, Russia and China but creating another superpower to butt heads with them isn't the way either, creating bigger and bigger powers is the literal antithesis of what I would want. It takes power further and further away from the people and creates leadership structures which are very difficult to direct.

Just because the small guy 'never wins' doesn't meant you have to tack onto whatever superpower comes your way - I would be against joining the USA, China and Russia and view the EU in a similar way.

 

Yes I understand completely, But as a government negotiating we had to ask and see if a deal could be done on some level. There may still be a deal to be done in the future if the balance of power changes but as I say I would have given us more time by staying in for more 2 years.

 

Just to mention that in between elections an MP may be in effect sacked by the constituency electorate gaining a percentage to remove and a new member selected and a Bye Election called, The EU has no such rule,

 

Things are certainly warming up with regards the vaccine supply: Ms Kyriakides told a Brussels press conference: “We reject the logic of first come, first served. That may work at the neighbourhood butchers but not in contracts.” but only when the EU aren't at the front of the queue , apparently our supply is being made in the UK although Borris didnt make any comment with regards Ms Kyriakides's statement I'd be disappointed if the UK orders were diverted to the EU.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/covid-vaccine-eu-boris-johnson-b1793652.html?utm_source=upday&utm_medium=referral

 

If she is rejecting the first come first served what is her solution to under production? There isn’t enough to fulfil all the contracts currently. Seems madness providing them to people that can not currently use them.

 

I moved this part of your post onto this thread since this aspect of it leads it self more to the Brexit discussion.

In some ways you're right in that things could have gone differently but what happened has happened.

The interesting thing is that it's given us a real world example almost immediately that having another layer of governance slows things down rather than speeds things up. If what Robert Peston has Tweeted recently Holland, Germany, Italy etc could have been on a contractual level footing with the UK but because of the obsessions with controlling collective bargaining were left behind.

Its in addition to the EU ventilator scheme earlier in the pandemic that a massive fuss was made of but I don't belive caused us to miss out on a single piece of equipment.

It surely makes you wonder how often these things happened outside of the pandemic situation where processes are slower.

It also gives us an opportunity to reflect on some of the misguided viewpoints that were sold to us over the past year.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/10/uk-poised-to-shun-eu-coronavirus-vaccine-scheme