Most liked posts in thread: Brexit

Without doubt if the French are not cooperating which recent media outlets suggest they aren't there is little point in financing something they are not doing, but I will repeat if they are not cooperating then they are aiding traffickers and smuggling gangs something we know is aberrant and should be stopped.

I'd suggest with the recent pandemic we have pumped far more in to the NHS than you above figure, now we are a part of a coalition funding Ukraine's war against Russia, it's 3 years since we actually left the EU things were never going to happen overnight but looking at what is happening with regards certain EU members financially struggling and going into recession, the likes of Hungary and Poland saying they will not take the quotas of economic migrants the EU are saying fellow member should take its hardly a happy bunch of EU members.
If as we're hearing the EU are going to stop the influx of economic migrants coming through Italy Greece etc the flow of economic migrants should stop or reduce in numbers, as the ones who claim asylum and are successful will have Italian, French, German etc nationality so they the would not be any reason to come to the UK and the failed economic migrants will be deported, win win.

 

QUOTE="Offcomedun, post: 792576, member: 792"]Having spent the last eight years or so being slagged off by most of the Tory party and most of its current ministers, the EU is, quite understandably, in no mood to cut Britain any slack or do our current government any favours. We all know that there is usually wriggle room for interpretation of rules. But they warned us that there would be consequences to leaving the EU and so it’s no surprise that they have taken a hard line on most things.

I’ve no idea what the outcome of Starmer’s talks with the EU will be. But it’s crystal clear that a government headed by Starmer would have much warmer, more cooperative relations with the EU than the Tories currently have, Without the anti-EU baggage of the current government they’re much more likely to be able to negotiate compromise agreements and/or less officious implementation of rules. They’re also more likely to get better cooperation over issues like the boat crossings.

But there is no way that we’ll get cooperation on boat crossings unless we’re prepared to take our fair share of genuine asylum seekers. Only by agreeing proper safe routes and a fair quota of genuine cases will we get the necessary cooperation to help combat the gangs and weed out the bogus cases. If we simply expect the southern and southeastern European states to take all the genuine people fleeing persecution in Africa, the Middle East and Afghanistan then why would they be motivated to help us out? It has to be a quid pro quo.[/QUOTE]

I thought the Tories would be blamed, the EU have made it abundantly clear unless we are members of the Customs Union and the Single Market they can't/won't treat the UK any differently to any other country outside the EU.
Do you really believe if Labour get in power the EU will think this party didn't want to leave the EU so well cut them some slack.
Let's say Starmer does get cut some slack there will be consequences to the EU cutting us some slack and I'd think they would be to the benefit if the EU rather than the UK.
With regards economic migrants your correct as we are seeing at the moment they have no intention of doing what they are being paid handsomely to do and stop the boats.
Our stop the boats payment was with regards economic migrants crossing the Chanel from France irrelevant of which country they were fleeing, the ECHR was originally established in 1959 when the present situation would never have been envisaged it's out of date and either needs reviewing with regards the present situation our the UK need to leave, the present situation is out of hand and as long as little is being done to deter these asylum seekers it will only get worse.

 

So you won't vote labour because you think bAsed on zero evidence that labour will try go back to the EU. You would rather the country be run into the gutter? A continuation of the disaster capitalism we see laid bare every day?

How can that be it baffles me?

Labour won't return to the EU noone will. Not anyone who manages to gain power anyway.

Think you need to forget the EU being this big baddy that ruined your existence. We aren't going back. So maybe grown adults like you could change their opinions of our closest neighbour and actually work with them instead of treating them as enemies.

Jesus you're a sensitive soul wasn't a personal attack. Just calling out the points you made about not wanting to vote labour because of their recent comments on EU migrants.

Move on mate. Vote the Tory's out

 

Unfortunately what I'm seeing and hearing from Starmer I can't vote Labour, who in their right mind believes the EU will cut us some slack, they are being well paid by the British tax payer to reduce/stop the small boats, the only way that will stop is when there is adverse weather in the channel nothing to do with the French police.
As I've posted previously the French aren't doing what they said they would, once in the dinghys they are no longer Frances problem yet many countries are condemning the traffickers and smuggling gangs so France not stopping the boats they are turning a blind eye to what's going on and encouraging smugglers/traffickers wouldn't you agree.
If Starmer is to get some sort of a deal with the EU then once again it will be on their terms, those of us who voted leave were constantly told we knew the EU would stand firm and not give the UK privileges other countries outside the EU don't get, and rightly so, we accepted that argument so why people think Starmer can sweet talk them is crazy.
Starmer has openly stated Labour will not be looking to rejoin, yet there is talk today of a possible return as part of an 'outer tier' of members, France and Germany's 'secret plan' to drag Britain back into the EU WITHOUT a referendum, aided by Starmer: How plot dubbed 'Macron's onion' - which was devised with 'Labour in mind' - will try to lure UK back under Brussels' control as 'associate' country
Of course its a part of being in opposition to criticise the party that is in power but when any Labour front benchers are ask if they were in were in power what would they offer as an alternative, to which they either say we'll draft it out in our manifesto or waffle their way through without giving a define answer as we know all politicians do when they have no answer.

 

This is, of course, pure Brexit-supporting media speculation and scaremongering. There’s no way that Starmer would think of taking us into such a formal arrangement with the EU unless there was clear and strong public support for the idea. It would be electoral suicide to do so.

Of course it’s perfectly possible that, say, ten years from now, there may well be strong public support for the idea. By then many of the older voters who voted Leave will have died, replaced in the electorate by younger voters who are generally more socially liberal and who don’t hold the old Empire memories and anti-foreigner sentiments of many older Brexit voters. By then it will also be crystal clear, even to many who refuse to see it now, that Brexit has isolated and economically damaged us, so it’s in our interests to have closer trading arrangements even if we don’t fully rejoin (which I doubt the EU would want anyway).

 

You're such a charming, cheerful bloke, what an attitude....

 

What I find so strange is your total obsession with boat crossings, immigration and the EU.
Thirteen years of Tory rule have decimated the social fabric of this country, massively increased poverty and inequality, made nearly all of us poorer, created a huge housing crisis for our kids, and shattered our NHS, education, police and other social services. They have also created the boat crossing problem (which didn’t exist before Brexit) and dismally failed to deal with it effectively. Jesus wept - as an ex Labour voter, how bad do they have to be before you think they need to be voted out?

 

What’s attitude got to do with it? It’s an incontrovertible fact that many who voted for Brexit won’t be around in 2033 - seventeen years after the referendum.
The makeup of the electorate is changing, as it always does. We know that the majority of younger people are less anti-Europe than many older people, so the public attitude towards the decision to leave will change (and already is doing so). I’m 67 myself, so I’m not saying this from the perspective of an aggrieved younger person. It’s just psephological reality.

 

And just imagine I know you remainers could never accept it but we become a stronger nation because we chose our own destiny.
The EU at the moment is hardly harmonious, Germany one of the manufacturing power houses of Europe struggling not go into recession with their country in economic contraction, Hungary & Poland telling other fellow member they will not take immigration quotas, Italy being over run with migrants whilst the other countries watch and offer poor solutions to stop it then the EU want to enlarge it with more poor ex iron curtain countries, and posible an Asian country.
Were still awaiting the doom and gloom that was predicted at the time the pound looking good against the Euro and the dollar unemployment level still very low there an abundance of jobs if the dole dossers want to get off their buts and work, hardly the scenario were were told before we left and to add to that a world wide pan demic were the UK performed better than many EU countries, each individual country looking after its own citizens rather than the togetherness of a group of 26.

 

Because it's a thread on Brexit and unfortunately like it or not immigration once again will be the main topic on both manifestos come the next General election, and all this because Angela Merkel threw Germany's border open, that was a great move.
Your correct 13 years of this government has been difficult for the ordinary working man, but allowing the number of illegal immigrants into the UK hasn't helped the things you have identified above, NHS, schools etc that's without the millions the government have to spend to put these illegal immigrants into hotels, because we have to abide by a document that was written when no one could envisage the present situation, it either needs reviewing and altering or the UK need to pull out, these numbers of illegals economic migrants is not sustainable but by the sounds of your reply you don't see it as a problem.
Even accepting the people who decide asylum claims was doubled/trebled it could not keep up with this invasion, I know you don't like the word but I suggest 85,000 that the Hone Office are predicting to have crossed the English channel as of August 2023 is nothing more than an invasion, that'd boat people alone not coming to the UK by other means, then the left wing lawyers will get their noses in the trough with appeals being payed for by legal aid again the British taxpayer picking up the bill.
You comment Brexit has caused this, there was always illegals trying to get to the UK, where the "streets are paved with gold", I'd suggest all inclusive housing rent, gas, electric, food provided, clothing, and spending money, then having no control over these people once they step onto British land many disappearing into the black economy is about right.
I don't see France, Germany, Poland, Hungary, Spain, Italy doing the same maybe the UK is the only country playing by the rules.
Your correct I've made my position clear with regards the last General Election but I'm not buying what the present Labour party are proposing or not proposing when they are in a corner when being questioned "what would they do in power" so to conclude I'm not happy I may have to vote Tory again but although I was a Labour Party member most of my life I'm not being taken in by what Labour might do if they were to get into power.

 

Immigrants aren’t responsible for the decline of this country. The Tories are. We have a Labour shortage; we actually need more people in the workforce and they’re not coming from the ranks of the unemployed, because unemployment is low. You seem obsessed about immigrants, as though they are the cause of our decline, when they are just an easy visible target and a relatively minor issue.
We are still a rich country. But far too much of our wealth is in the hands of a tiny minority who pay very little tax on their riches. And the Tories are (quite deliberately) making this worse because (surprise,surprise) they and their friends are the ones hoarding all the money. They don’t give a shit about poor state schools, the crumbling NHS, rising crime or the difficulties many people have making ends meet, because they can all afford private education, private healthcare and live in posh low-crime areas. You’re shooting at the wrong target.
This article sums it up pretty nicely:
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/right-wing-ideologues-cant-work-out-who-broke-britain-so-let-me-explain-2627060

 

Of course we do. Do you live in a cave?
The majority of younger people have always been more socially liberal than older people, which usually equates to less suspicious of foreigners. Younger people have grown up in a more multi racial society and so most are quite used to living alongside people from other ethnicities. Also, many more go onto higher education, which is consistently shown to lead to more liberal attitudes. And many of those more educated youngsters resent the fact that their freedom to easily move between living an working on the continent and the UK have been severely hampered by Brexit.

 

Younger people have always eventually grown up to be more wiser when they are a bit older................well, in most cases ...

 

But all the current evidence is that people are now retaining their more liberal views much further into middle age compared to the past.

 

Aye, if you say so......

 

No. All the research and polls say so.

 

So my original point is correct. You won't vote labour because of the EU. Seriously mate. Get a grip.

 

I can assure you anything you post won't have any bearing on how It vote "mate".

 

Not everywhere is the same as Bradford, you know.
Where did I say that university educated young people are the majority? But there’s no denying that things have changed. When, in 1980, I became the first person in my extended family to go to university, less than 10% of 18 year olds went to uni. Now, it’s nearly 40%.
And social attitudes across the whole population are much more liberal than they were 30 years ago so even non university youngsters are, on average, more liberal than they used to be.
And who, apart from you, is talking about the extreme left? This was a discussion about liberal social values impacting on attitudes towards Europe, which has sod all to do with the (numerically very small) extreme left. And, actually, many on the extreme left are anti-EU, seeing it as a big capitalist plot.