Most liked posts in thread: Brexit

No, I'm not suggesting that we have another vote. I merely cited it as an example of how those under 40 are generally more liberal than older voters of our generation and older.
If you read my post above you'll see that I don't like his habit of slinging insults at others. But I still think he's got a point. To paraphrase MacMillan, we are the generation that never had it so good.
I don't know about you but I didn't have to rely on the generosity of my parents, because the state gave me excellent healthcare, a free education to university level and housing was affordable for people on an average wage/salary. None of that is true for young people today.

 

Or how stupid we are for accepting them within the definition of refugee. According to the BBC article I posted earlier in the thread, most asylum applications by Albanians are being thrown out by the courts, when they eventually get there. I still believe it must be possible to avoid putting them through the system and simply deporting them as soon as we identify them as coming from Albania - a safe European country.

 

We can't decide which bits of the convention to accept or not, we've signed up to it and I keep saying the courts use it for their decisions.

Oh and it's not that they're being rejected from that article. It's just that the obviously spurious ones have been sorted but all the others haven't been resolved yet. Even the article says 53% of claims by Albanians are accepted.

Why do you still believe that despite everything Ive said about the refugee convention that rules it? You can't discriminate on nationality and the you have to prove they don't meet the criteria to reject it.

In terms of your German example by the way. Turkey is considered a safe Country - we go on holiday there for example - but 25,000 Turks claimed asylum in German so being from a safe country once again doesn't disqualify a person from the system.

 

In which case we need to throw resources at improving the processing system. If we have to put these Albanians through the system then we need to do it much quicker. Of course that's highly unlikely to happen under this government because they are into cutting civil servants and the court system, not properly resourcing it.
But, more importantly, we need to work much more effectively with the Europeans to tackle the gangs. To be fair to Sunak, he does at last appear to have started to try dealing with the Europeans like a grown up, as opposed to the foot-stamping children's approach of his predecessors. But the Brexit schism has created a legacy of distrust on both sides that cannot but hamper those efforts.
Putting blanket bans in place is still both illegal and morally wrong.

 

But putting an illegal blanket ban on Albanians is right?

I agree but let's not also forget that the people representing these people are likely to want to drag the process out as much as possible too. There is no benefit to them in getting a quick no rather than a slow maybe and the information needed for a rejection is time consuming.

But yes, more efficency would be helpful as I would say for most things.

 

1, I merely cited it as an example of how those under 40 are generally more liberal than older voters of our generation and older, because previous generations have made modern society more liberal.
2, To paraphrase MacMillan, we are the generation that never had it so good. once again because of the previous generations forfeiting their lives in the second world war, to make future generations safer and
prosperous.
3, I don't know about you but I didn't have to rely on the generosity of my parents, because the state gave me excellent healthcare, a free education to university level and housing was affordable for people on an average wage/salary. None of that is true for young people today, My parents did what I'd expect any good parent to do bring their children up to know right from wrong respect others, once I got to 15 years of age I went out to work showing my independence and started making my own way in life.
I remember as a kid if you wanted a doctor call out you paid which you don't now, the state still does excellent health care I'm down for two hips replacements it might be two years I'm told but we know the devastation Covid had on our heath service and 10 years of austerity, I still believe the NHS is excellent, maybe not as good as it was during Labours 13 years in office but that's another argument, we still have free education up to 18 years of age and if you want to go on to Uni you pay for your tuition, guess who it was who brought tuition fees in Tony Blair the champion of the working class.
Your correct with regards young ones getting on the housing ladder it is difficult but the same argument will exist for the next generation and so on, as i've said the bank of mum and dad usually helps out, we've done it I'm sure you have help your children out financially one way or another.

 

A blanket ban on people coming from a safe European country is, in my view, qualitatively very different from a blanket ban from everywhere. But, if it's not possible to do legally then that makes even more imperative to speed up the processing systems that the Tories have allowed to atrophy and to work constructively across Europe to counter the trafficking gangs.

 

None of which alters the point that our generation have been historically uniquely lucky compared to the difficulties faced by previous generations and those coming behind us.

 

Don't care, anything else is delusional and dishonest .....

 

Some things am can't happen over night and while I know that you see everything through the prism of Tory cuts even you can surely see that having to change infrastructure from processing 10k people to processing 50k people a year won't come without backlogs and take an enormous amount of resourcing.

But in terms of the gangs 100%

The other thing we need to do is create a deterant to people making the very dangerous trip. That needs to stop them doing so but also providing alternative routes without actually increasing the overall numbers.

 

I agree with most of this, but would simply add this - we shouldn't be breaching international law to make up for the fact that the various Tory governments of the past 13 years have trashed the processing and legal systems, thereby making it much more difficult and expensive to tackle the complex migrant issue.

 

You’re absolutely right with the above points but once again you’re literally fantasising if you think you can apply that logic to every problem.

 

Fantastic news. They can be someone else’s problem.

 

I see the Tories are coming out with being tough on immigration again and how they will stop the boats.

Seems you can fool people over and over and over and over and they never learn.

How's their last major bill to stop immigration worked out? It's barely 15 months since this was the "turning point"

Since then no one has been sent to Rwanda, and the number of crossings have doubled.



Gullis standing up to attack labour and in doing so going against the governments own bill because he is too thick to understand what is going on was a great comedy moment.

 

Tories may be rubbish, and they are, but can you spot the difference ?
At least they are talking and trying to solve this problem, whereas your lot won't even mention it without being prompted...
Anyone would think that you supported this illegal invasion by criminals and maybe worse ...

 

The reason nobody has yet to go to Rwanda is because it is still being challenged through various courts.

Once it begins, it will last for 5 years.

 

Like I say, thats the issue and that will be the issue with this. You pass unlawful bills and they are challenged and not resolved.

It's clear the aim of this bill is not really to stop the boats, but to make it look like want to stop the boats but everyone else is stopping them from doing so.

 

Exactly. They know perfectly well that it hasn't a cat in hell's chance of working, but that's not the point of it. The point is to maximise their opportunities to wage culture wars against the courts, 'lefty lawyers' and anyone else who believes that we should abide by the international laws that we've signed up to. It's pure political showboating to deflect from their thirteen years of chaos, incompetence and managed deterioration.