Most liked posts in thread: Afghanistan

All this is likely true. But the decision is whether to help your allies to see it through or turn and run.

If you choose to turn and run then own it don't start implying that people who had fought and died under your flag showed cowardice when you're the one turning tail.

Also make sure you're leaving people who were helping you are going to be okay.

I actually have no issue with them withdrawing in general (I hope they remember it the next time they want to start chucking their weight around but probably wont) but it's the lack of planning execution and the poor rhetoric that is really annoying to me.

 

All of this is mighty fine and completely true.

But he can at least try to do the right thing and if he gets bogged down in the complex processes then so be it.

But just watch these interviews which are 6 weeks apart.





This is not a President who has been tied in knots by a bureaucratic process. It's a President that has gone down the route that he wanted, underestimated the enemy and is now coming across as uncaring.

Then this morning he's rather chillingly said..."If there's American citizens left, we're gonna stay to get them all out," I would hope what he actually meant is 'Americal allies" because if they start pulling up the drawbridge before all of our people are out then we might have a massive issue.

Imagine if other presidents had responded to people falling from planes with "Ah yeah but that was 5 day ago" or said that this type of chaos was inevitable and built in to the decision making a month after saying it wouldn't happen.

 

It's been the usual predictable response from a lot of people where the stance taken is judged on the basis of who is taking the decision rather than the actual repercussions. People and media outlets who would have defended Trump for the decision have been very aggressive with Biden and vice versa. The Guardian had a critical article on Biden the other day but it was the most gentle, diverting and balanced writing I've ever seen, would they have done the same if Trump had made the decision and given the recent speeches?

In my view his speech last night was disgrace and the USA equivalent of a Little Englander but others will have loved it. I don't know how any country who goes into coalition with the USA in the future can have trust that they won;t just cut and run if they need to focus more at home.

The thing is though that there is so much blame to go around that almost every stance can be taken in good faith and justified. Basically every President in the last 2 decades of both colours have lied about the situation in Afghanistan and all involved have made terrible decisions. I just wish the response was more consistent rather than through the lens of whether the decision makes was Republican or Democrat.

 

The issue seems to be that we have trained the Afghan army in the image of a Western army. Reliant on surveillance, air support and communication infrastructure which is why they could be supported with basically a minimal operational presence. Its worth remembering that no US soldier has died in Afghanistan since February 2020 so all the fighting was actually being done by the local army......which makes Bidens statement all the more disgusting.

When the US removed those key aspects they were basically back to being an armed militia who were at a disadvantage to the Taliban despite lesser numbers.

But as a general point you're quite right in that it's easy for politicians to make decisions on war when they're not going. It's why the guys with knowledge of military operations who spoke today were so impressive. Once you have people there you should see it through though rather than leaving the people you're fighting in a stronger position than when you started and leaving people who have supported you to their fate.

 

Well if it's not something he wants he's doing a damn fine job of justifying and doubling down on it. Why are we making excuses when we can hear his actual words, he's not had his arm put up his back.

Unless the senate and Congress are writing his speeches as well?

I agree it will go down pretty well in the insular parts of America (I mentioned it was a ll a little bit "Little Englander" but that's the actual worry when so much of our policy is intrinsically tied to their capabilities. An MP said on TV this morning that Trump was overtly 'America First' but Biden is actually coming across as 'America Only'.