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Players contracts-redefined

Discussion in 'City Talk' started by Keefly Bantam, Nov 2, 2020.

  1. Keefly Bantam

    Keefly Bantam Important Player
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    My point is why should players getting sacked be paid off their contract? Football continually rewards failure. It needs to change.
     
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  2. Hoochy-Min

    Hoochy-Min Squad Player

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    It is interlinked but they would only be judged on the chances they get. Using a striker as your example you could measure them on their fitness level with bleep tests etc; distance covered in the match; pass completion; shots on target plus loads more things.

    I can't see it happening but I'll bet the proper clubs are using these stats to check on players. Not us, obviously! :joy:
     
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  3. Hoochy-Min

    Hoochy-Min Squad Player

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    Remember when we 'had to let Vaughan go' because he wouldn't have tried if we'd forced him to stay? If their pay was based around staying withing certain parameters that are clearly measurable then that sort of thing would be less within a player's control.
     
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  4. Bigrod

    Bigrod Captain
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    I understand what you are saying, but I think you have to accept that unless they commit a serious crime, then they are unlikely to be sacked.

    You cited managers getting sacked, and the information available suggests that they get their salary ‘paid off’.

    There is no easy answer.

    The only obvious option is to go down the line of ER, which I understand was to pay a reduced basic salary and to have much larger performance bonuses.

    Seems somewhat ironic that you are coming up with a similar proposal.
     
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  5. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    The freedom has to be a two way street, so if a club aren’t performing a player should be able to give notice and leave and get a new club? No more transfer fees and sell on clauses
     
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  6. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    He'd probably claim that the manager wasn't playing to his strengths - expecting him to play back to goal, despite knowing that hold up play wasn't his forte. He'd point to the team not providing the kinds of balls into the box that he thrived upon when he was banging in goals for fun for Grays Athletic in the Conference and for Pompey in L1.
    He could also argue that his goalscoring record in the previous few seasons had been in serious decline and that this was publicly known information. Therefore, when the club signed him they knew they were signing a low scoring striker. Therefore to expect him to suddenly start scoring regularly again, without them providing a significant level of specialist individual assistance and a tactical plan that might realistically increase his scoring (ie providing more chances of the type that suits his style) was unrealistic and therefore the sacking would be unlawful
    It would be a minefield.
     
    #26 Offcomedun, Nov 3, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2020
  7. Bronco

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    Or CEOs of banks around 2008 :(.
     
  8. Bronco

    Bronco Star Player
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    Sorry mate missed your post.
     
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  9. Old city man

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    In a way I think transfers are paid by employers to recruit
    someone supplied by an agency.
     
  10. XCIV_Bantam

    XCIV_Bantam Squad Player
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    in the lower leagues the costs aren't as high as you'd think i would say less than £100,000 PA for some players a lot more will be on less than that. This like @JonButterfield@JonButterfield said would only last to their mid thirties if not reduced already. the system is fine as is. Really its down to the club for due dilligence to research and vet managers/head coaches that in turn improve recruitment.

    Lastly just a thought, it looks like this is system is in place to hold onto assets before they move higher up the system. with your method its far easier to drop tools to facilitate a move to another club. Wellens a good current example. Salford will have paid compo for him.
     
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  11. Keefly Bantam

    Keefly Bantam Important Player
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    Interesting angle.
     
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  12. Keefly Bantam

    Keefly Bantam Important Player
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    Why is what I am saying ironic? I think that players should have much more of an incentivised contract. A lower basic salary keeps them on their toes. Would you have seen the same performance V Barrow if the players had say a £1000 win bonus. This could easily be done under the salary cap system.
    Not agreeing with how ER ran things though, just to clear that bit up.
     
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  13. Keefly Bantam

    Keefly Bantam Important Player
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    Good synopsis highlighting how hard it would be. Players are in almost cast iron contracts and like Doyle and Vaughan usually hold the upper hand. The tail should not wag the dog.
     
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  14. Disillusioned of Bingley

    Disillusioned of Bingley Fringe Player

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    It's an interesting idea in theory, and a good talking point, but sadly it's a non-starter. Like Enid's idea of incentivized contracts, it would have to be adopted by all clubs for it to work; if one club was to go it alone, no-one would sign for them. In any case if a player was to be sacked for under-performing, he would go straight to the PFA and you would have every member walking out in sympathy.

    As football is a team game, how would you define individual KPI's, when a player's performance can be largely dependent on that of others? For instance if a striker gets no service whatsoever (e.g. Doyle) it's not necessarily his fault that he is underachieving. Similarly if the performance of defenders is measured in terms of how many goals they concede, they may play OK but the keeper is a liability (e.g. Sattelmaier). Or if players are played continually in a role to which they are not suited (Doyle again).
     
  15. Bigrod

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    If you went for a £1,000 win bonus, and if a team used 14 players, then that is a gross total of £71.22 per player. If you have to pay 40% tax on that sum, then it reduces to £42.85. So you could argue not a huge incentive.

    Actually I am in favour of some sort of scheme, but feel that the current wage cap, doesn’t give clubs enough scope.

    If one team adopts this sort of policy, then it can only offer lower basic salaries.

    Most players are going to look for a club, where they can depend on their wages. So we would be seriously disadvantaged in recruitment.
     
  16. Bigrod

    Bigrod Captain
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    Another factor to consider. Say the players who are under 21, are on an average salary of £30,000 a head. So that leaves £1,290,000 for the current 19 senior professionals. Again that is an average gross salary of £67,894. That would have used up every last penny of the £1,500,000.

    So if you pay them less so that they can have a win bonus, it will reduce the actual salaries even further.

    There will already be a number of add ones which will reduce the above figure. The EFL clarify that
    When calculating total salary spending, the ‘cap’ includes:

    Remember less than 12 months ago, people were talking about Doyle and Vaughan each being on more than £5,000 a week (which I felt was a wild figure for League 2).
     
  17. Keefly Bantam

    Keefly Bantam Important Player
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    Sorry mate, meant £1K per player. Though good points made.
     
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  18. Bigrod

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    As I say I like the proposal. However the formula you come up with, would mean a lot of money out of the wages budget.
    Based on a formula of 18 wins a season for a mid table side. Then the equation based on 13 players being eligible is 234 getting a £1,000 per game, so a club would on average have to put £234,000 of the £1,500,000 aside for bonuses.
    In the last full season, teams got 20+ wins to get into the promotion slots/play offs. So the same formula would mean a club could potentially have to pay out at the very least £260,000 plus. The clubs who got automatic promotion or into the play offs, with extra games, then up to £300,000, or twenty percent of the budget.
    Now if the EFL changed its criteria for next season and said that £1,500,000 was for the basic salary and that clubs could reward players with a win bonus employing a pot based on your £1,000 per player, per win, then it may work. Trying to allow for that flexibility within the current cap, would mean around a 20% reduction in the salary range I quoted above, which I think would be unacceptable to many players and for sure the PFA.
     
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  19. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
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    Letting Vaughan go was bullshit, and we should have never allowed that to happen.

    I heard all the excuses at the time, and none of them washed; Stuart mustn't have wanted an unhappy player in the camp, though, and that's fair enough, but we just rolled over and had our tummy tickled. Remember when Geoffrey Richmond would put out a warcry and cast someone into the shadows/gardening leave/early retirement unless we got a proper offer? Nobody is bigger than the club and all that.

    Forget 'ambition', which is a nonsense term as outlined by JR - I reckon what we lack is ruthlessness and cunning.
     
  20. Interested Bystander

    Interested Bystander Important Player
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    You can outside of the cap incentivise players by paying promotion and cup progression bonuses
     
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