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Stefan Rupp

Discussion in 'City Talk' started by Onside, Apr 15, 2018.

  1. banbrotam

    banbrotam Impact Sub

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    You can't judge the success of a transfer policy, if its main remit is to sign players with potential to go for bigger fees, in one season

    Crickey! You could produce a list as long as our pitch of players who didn't look anything in the first year

    The flaw is the owners thinking that this could be successful in three years, when it's more like five
     
    Derrie likes this.
  2. TallinnBantam

    TallinnBantam Regular Starter
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    Explain why you think it will be five? I don't think we have a flock of players - not even one - that will be coming through in the next three years (remember, the owners have had us for two years now). We've got a temp manager, so regardless of SG staying or not, we've still got a manager who has to bed in and get the players he wants. We've also got a total farm of a playing surface, which will take a lot of money to put right. Money that was probably budgeted for new players.
    Nahki Wells was the last player we had who came good, and we got decent money for. Do we have anyone like that in the squad (first and development) at the moment? Someone we can sell on to produce further monies for investment?

    I honestly can see us being in a stagnant state for many a years to come, unless there is some form of investment that doesn't come from the sale of players or cup runs.

    This means we're going to need investment from the owners coffers. And with the suggested rumours of the two owners being on different pages, I can't see this happening.

    As mentioned, the SG interview giving us insight in to what he is going to ask, and ultimately if he stays or goes, will pretty much let us know what the board plans to do with our club.
     
  3. banbrotam

    banbrotam Impact Sub

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    Five is the realistic timeframe, taking into account that we only started properly investing in youth (and yes, that can be debated) in 2016.

    I've not seen many clubs see success with this policy, in much under that

    Yes, it's a slow process, but if done properly it gives a very firm base for future success, which almost can't be ruined (unless we got a financially incompetent owner).

    Burnley are a great example, promoted to our division in 91/92 it would take until the end of the decade for them to be big enough to sustain residence in The Championship and then another half a dozen years, before they were strong enough to compete for Premiership honours. Basically, 20 years to go from L2 to the top. Probably, lots of frustrating spells because they haven't had particularly rich owners in this time. Garlick, their chairman is worth about £50m

    I don't think ours is remotely perfect, but I've yet to see which clubs of our size have a great alternative plan, that's succeeded, without substantial backing

    If you can tell me one, then let me know

    Meanwhile, a slight tweak to the policy and maybe we'll be OK
     
  4. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
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    But Garlick (and his business partner Banaszkiewicz - I think that's how to spell his surname) took a slightly different route to achieving their club's success. They were in the financial doldrums for years and treading water in the Championship. Turf Moor had been sold, their training facilities had been sold. They certainly created an image that it was a well run club and that the club's finances were well controlled. They had fortunately struck lucky in the recent past by selling a couple of their players for several millions. But only one of those had been developed at Burnley. And I don't recall them having much success from a conveyor belt of young stars being developed and sold off. But then their two owners and a group of other wealthy fans rolled the dice. They restructured the business, invested significant sums of their own into the club (importantly, with no guarantee of ever seeing their investment again!), re-purchased Turf Moor etc and pumped a lot of money into their squad. Oh yes, and recruited an excellent manager in Dyche.

    It certainly paid off but it was a huge gamble for them. And they had their two seasons in the PL which transformed their finances. In their first year, Burnley made the 2nd highest profit in the PL! The gamble to invest worked incredibly well ... fortunately. But others who have gambled invested in a similar way (think QPR, Derby, Notts Forest etc) haven't been so lucky. But if we have aspirations to join the PL at some point in the future, we'll have to do something similar (or maybe on a lesser scale to get to the Championship). And hope it comes off but then there are no guarantees it will!
     
    #84 Dennis, Apr 17, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  5. Onside

    Onside Squad Player
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    Really good post, and lays out what is required.
     
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  6. Park bantam

    Park bantam Regular Starter
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    What it doesn't set out is how it will be payed for.witnout spending millions and sending us ask back into administration..
     
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  7. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    He who dares wins Rodney. I see our strategy is to nurture our own talent and sell for a profit. Funnily enough just like Fleetwood are trying to do to help be self sufficient. Before we get too carried away Fleetwoods owner in 2016 invested £9 million in their state of the art training facility at pool foot farm. Yep, those scary words, investment and structured debt. You cannot take your business forward without it. You can plan 10 years ahead if you want but included in that plan has to be investment and a plan to expand. And that costs money. And guess what? Businessmen don't use their own money, they use structured debt.
     
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  8. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    This club will not ever go forward without being in debt. You do realise all businesses operate with debt structure?
     
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  9. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
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    I suggest you read what I wrote again then!

    If we wish to follow the Burnley approach, it was done without taking on a load of unsustainable debt. Had it gone tits up, it's highly unlikely that the club would have been faced with Administration. The owners and the other backers invested without a guaranteed expectation of it being repaid. The backing was raised by a combination of equity and interest free undated bonds with some debt mortgaged on some of the club's tangible assets.

    ps the word is 'paid' and not 'payed'
     
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  10. Park bantam

    Park bantam Regular Starter
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    Yes but it has to be manageable debt.Just to keep the same budget as last year will need a million. And 250k for the pitch. Less fans means we will be taking less money in catering and retail so less money towards rent and the general running of the club.
    Hope at least they keep the same level of budget as last year but just can't see it
     
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  11. Park bantam

    Park bantam Regular Starter
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    Of course people could throw money away but they won't. And we have no real assets Paid or payed
     
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  12. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
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    It's the old adage 'you have to speculate to accumulate' which infers that if it isn't a successful investment, some or all of the investment may well be lost. Or more technically, it's the risk-reward tradeoff. If investment were always guaranteed to generate a return, we'd all be doing it by the bucket full!

    Whether you agree with it or not, the Burnley owners and backers were willing to provide investment without any guarantee that they would see it again. In fact, given the downturn in our recent performances, if I were one of the owners, that's how I'd be considering some of my investment in the club at the moment!
     
  13. TallinnBantam

    TallinnBantam Regular Starter
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    Exactly, you've got to spend money to make money. I'm all for getting a conveyor belt of youth set up, but for them to shine, they need the correct training facilities and club structure. The way our team is set up at the moment, is that we've got such a threadbare first team squad, that players are being rushed into the first team, and are up against it from the off (Hanson, Gibson, Devine, etc). The reason we've got a threadbare squad, is because we've got a nonsense transfer policy. As I mentioned, the transfer policy is going to be even more nonsense next season, because we've got to spend thousands on a new pitch.
    The only way I see out of this, is by an injection of money - with the risk of NO RETURN, put in by our owners.
     
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  14. Ricc

    Ricc Impact Sub

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    and that won't happen.

    with reduced budget, and the pitch to pay for, I look forward to a team of 3rd rate German kids turning out for us, and a relegation battle. well if you can call getting well and truly cut adrift by March a 'battle' anyway.
     
  15. Park bantam

    Park bantam Regular Starter
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    Burnley have also taken a lot of money in transfers and spent a fraction of especially before they got to the premiership
     
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  16. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    If that is really what you think is going to happen you may as well not bother next year
     
  17. Ricc

    Ricc Impact Sub

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    That is exactly what I think will happen. I've still renewed though, and plan to attend. god knows why.
     
  18. Derrie

    Derrie Youngster

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    We have seen investment from the owners and I'm sick and tired of people simply dismissing that fact.

    We have purchased players that were scouted by professionals, played at decent levels and were performing well at those levels BUT every transfer at every level is a risk. No one is a certain, nailed on success story. Some of these players have hardly had a chance to fit in and play, shall we sack them off for them to turn into Josh Morris and bite us on the arse? Getting a conveyor belt of INS and OUTS each summer because they haven't instantly impressed is a terrible way to build a squad.

    We are a league one club competing in a difficult transfer market it's never as easy as "Why don't the club just invest in some proper players."
     
  19. Ricc

    Ricc Impact Sub

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    now wheres that clapping seal gif
     
  20. Onside

    Onside Squad Player
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    The main difference between ownership is that Burnley’s owners are fans so if they can afford to lose money that is up to them. I promise you this if I win the Euro lottery a good chunk is going into City, with the full knowledge I may never see it again. Dennis will be the accountant:)
     

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