Brexit

Immigration / free movement was never controlable, as long as we were in the Customs Union where as immigration from the rest of the world was but the party that said they would bring it down to thousands rather than ten's of thousands didn't, the political class only have themselves to blame, and ironically the person in charge of doing what the Tories promised in there manifesto was no other than Theresa May.

 

So we're prepared to chuck away all the massive benefits of free trade and zero customs issues with the largest trade bloc on the planet, in order to reduce the number of foreigners, who we need to keep our NHS and seasonal agriculture and tourism trades going.
Talk about cutting off our nose to spite our face.
And we already have the power within the EU to keep out EU nationals who can't financially support themselves, but Blair and successive governments chose not to use it.
As Park says, Brexit is a triumph of blind faith and wishful thinking over proven economic benefits. We haven't a cat in hell's chance of negotiating better trade deals on our own than we already have via the EU's vastly superior negotiating power.

 

A little OTT Steve I don't think my post suggest that, and when we get out of the EU we will trade with the world as 80% of countries outside the EU do now quite well.
We will be able to bring in who we want, and yes that will mean we can select the people who we want, be they nurses, doctor's, NHS workers cheap labour for agriculture etc (maybe we should get some of our own career unemployed doing this sort of work rather than paying them for doing nowt) immigration would be on a points system, apparently it works quite well in Australia.
Please show us where this has happened as the UK leaving is unprecedented ?.

 

Well here is the part where you basically say that my opinions are drivel which the dead soldiers of two world wars would resent me for.

I suggest you take back what you say to be honest. Its the honourable thing to do.

 

But Bronco everything in the leave argument is based on 'could', 'will', 'maybe'. The vision is utopian and not one leaver ever considers that in practice nothing is perfect.

 

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Funny I think Twitter would disagree with you.

Maybe you should log off. What next the sky isnt blue? Bradford city are just bluffing at the bottom of the table? Get real!

 

I couldn't care less for twitter. The fact you are trying to put forward argument with sort of reasoning confirmed everything I need to know about the sort of person you are if I hadn't already learnt it from your earlier postings.

I think you fail to grasp the concept of a debate and assume everything is a war, but for a forum that is meant for debate when you go round calling every man and his dog idiots etc it doesn't work, your contribution is very little other than knit picking and twisting them words rather than presenting a tangible point because you aren't capable of that.

 

As no one has left the EU before there is nothing to compare it with, so the argument the remainers are putting forward are failure, recession, currency crash, basically dome and gloom.
Not one remainer says that it might be better in the long run although it may not all be rosy for a period, two parties with totaly opposite opinions and agendas.
After the European election we will see what other countries think of the way the leaders of their countries have acted, I believe there will be many right wing groups elected and if Farage gets a Brexit Party up and running in time to be part of these elections there will be many Brexit Party member elected.

 

While it may be less of an issue for agriculture as we could use the short term visa's like Australia uses for such workers for something like the NHS these visa's wouldn't work, you aren't after say a nurse for 6 months only after all. And going through the full process of hiring someone on a long term basis in Australia is massively expensive, just like it is currently here to hire someone from outside the EU

 

You must have missed all my tangible points then.

Your post is presenting no arguments, no points, is simply telling me im no good which is quite hypocritical. Maybe if you want the moral high ground you should just keep quiet or come up with an actual valid point about brexit as opposed to myself.

 

Bronco we are not part of the eurozone so I dont understand why you are saying that we are part of that we arent. The doom and gloom in the UK is due to Tory cuts. I dont think you truly believe the EU controls the UK budget now do you?

All i would say is be careful what you wish for regarding elections. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47822835

 

I have posted my view on Brexit at the start of this thread, there's absolutely no need for me to repeat it all again.

 

I think your a little too late with regards what we wish for, like it or not the people have spoken now we need our elected MPs to do their job, but they will obviously get backed by the electorate that lost the vote hoping they will do all they can to make sure the referendum does not happen.
Labour voter all my life, but I can assure you I could not support Labour in future because of the way they are trying to stall and possibly get the outcome stopped.

 

The biggest problem with the whole vote is really we had 3 options but only two of them were on the ballot. Leave people fall into two camps, those who wanted a hard Brexit and those who wanted the soft Brexit that would have allowed a reduced form of some of the benefits to be kept so certainly many of those who voted leave weren't looking ton totally cut their noses off to spite their face.

imho if we were to only have had 2 options initially there should have been a plan for a second vote if leave won to let people then decide what kind of brexit we wanted. Atleast then we wouldn't be in this limbo we are right now as the second vote at least would have given a clearer picture of what the country was happy accepting. As it is they are having to try and leave taking into account both the hard and soft brexiters views and also the remainers as the initial vote was simply too close for MP's to totally ignore their views. You just can't negotiate a deal when you have you clear consensus and are having to try and please 3 distinct groups

 

Am on the light version and cannot see what you have posted, Can you please use darker colours?, Thank you

 

It is exactly the same for remainers, The EU we know now will be vastly changed in ten years from now, No remainer if honest can tell what the EU will be like in the future,

 

Well as the likes of your goodself seem to know better that leave voters did in June 2016 maybe if the MPs who want to kill brexit get their way and we have another referendum would it be fair to have just the two options "leave with Mays deal" or "leave with no deal" ?, because as you point out we have already voted to leave so staying in is not an option.
Or is it best out of 3 ?.

 

Oh Dear, That post was not even a reply to you it was to another poster who in my opinion sarcastically posted this--
"Cue stand to attention, salute the union jack and sing Land of Hope and Glory."
My reply was to say it is in my opinion an insult to those who died for our freedoms and still do,
The part about drivel is accurate so no apology needed