George Floyd copper

Does he still have the 60 seater transit van ?. Last saw him in the Star a good few years ago . Great bloke .

 

I think its inevitable because the whole debate is driven by ignorance and extremism at either end of the problem. The reasonable middle ground, open dialogue and fact driven discussion, isnt being given air time.

 

Absolutely. But is it right to have statues of slave drivers right now? If we pride ourselves as being an island that celebrates our mixed culture then should we really have people walking in the street next to a statue of a man that devastated people of their heritage in the past?

It's a really tricky one as times and values change. I would say that most people think things change for the better in the main. Perhaps public buildings, statues, parks, street names etc should be subject to review every decade or so on a rolling basis.

 

Not sure if hes still around, I usually see Tommy at the Memorial but obviously with it being canceled this year we couldn't catch up on old times.

 

No I don't think it is. That would be my short answer. My longer answer would be that history is complex and in judging these characters we need to be cognizant of the differences between commonly held views of the day, and today. We could be using this as an opportunity to re-emphasize how much of society has changed for the better. To remind ourselves not only of the role that white people in this country had in perpetuating slavery, but also in ending it. And that we then came together to have sensible discussions and a democratic process for either removing or rehousing some of these artifacts to reflect how society has continued to change. We could commit to having sensible reviews on a periodic basis about such things. In unity - and accepting that there'll be differences of opinion along the way, that not every artifact that some of the population find objectionable will be removed - and that such is the way of democracy. Instead, we're seeing division, violence, vandalism, the shouting down of anyone who not only objects, but stays silent on the current narrative that's playing out in some quarters. We're seeing not the removal of race as a defining charateristic, but THE characteristic. We're seeing an ethos of revenge and blame, of people alive today being held to account for actions of people centuries ago purely on the basis of skin colour.

There's a difference between saying 'Black Lives Matter' and having a view on the manner of the social and political agenda around it.

We're going to see more and more violence and division.

 

Why do you take it I'm not black and who are 'they'?

 

Is there an ignore feature for specific threads? Or does it apply across the site?

 

Where did I specifically state I wouldn't be questioning the inclusion of all statues and monuments? You've assumed that because you assume i'm some woke SJW blaming the white man for all the world's ills. I'm not. I've said time and again there are a myriad of factors in this varied debate.

This is what I mean about you. You always head in with the 'whataboutery' argument.

 

This is the winner for me on this thread, and what I have said to more left leaning work colleagues the last few days even though I consider my self centre left. You can’t just defend people ripping statues down, some will say they did in Facist and communist countries but we’re a democracy and that’s some I still strongly believe in. Question why statues are up no problem, start a petition to have them removed again no problem. But you can’t have a mob trying to erase history and force their beliefs on people. We’ll progress as a nation through debate/discussion and through learning about history the good and bad and learning from it so we can improve as a human race. But some would rather start some poor mans Russian Revolution instead. I do question just how many people still believe in democracy in this country it’s hard to tell sometimes.

 

Understood, thanks.

 

It always seems that you head into these debates armed with ammo to say 'ah, but what about these black people that do this...'

 

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Just another thought on this. In Germany after WW2, there was a comprehensive De-Nazification of the country. All Nazi artefacts, statues etc were removed. I believe its illegal in Germany to display Swastikas too.

Different sort of example and I'm not comparing it to the discussion on Slavery, but they went very hard on that approach. Its an interesting one - I've often wondered how Nazism is taught in a historic context in Germany, as much as anything to serve as a warning to how extremist views can lead to genocide and chaos when unchecked.

 

Not the only one either which is why I’ve generally stayed out of this thread. One or two are trying to give the impression of being fair and objective but are clearly trying to push other motives.

 

Bronco,

Don't tempt fate

 

Well done the People of Poole who have prevented the removal of the statue of Lord Baden Powell . Maybe the start of a more common sense approach .