Brexit

If this does go to court then they may be looking at ultra vires it is Latin and it means ‘beyond powers’ Parliament has the right to legislate but cannot legislate or force the PM when it is beyond its power. How ironic that Boris may will have to European law that states only the PM can ask for an extension

 

Give 'em their independence and that's all the SNP and a few Labour seats banished from our parliament...

 

https://twitter.com/i/status/1169022258515308544

George Galloway's take on the fiasco. Don't agree with everything he's said in the past do find myself agreeing with him regularly now.

 

and it is that simple

 

I am appalled at this latest betrayal of the British People

Rebels agreed extension with EU leaders before crunch vote
Oliver Wright, Policy Editor | Kate Devlin | Eleni Courea | Kieran Andrews


September 7 2019, 12:01am, The Times


The rebels went over Boris Johnson’s head to persuade EU leaders, including President MacronCHESNOT/GETTY IMAGES
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Rebel Tory MPs and opposition leaders received private assurances from European leaders that a request by parliament for a three-month Brexit extension would be granted in one last attempt to break the deadlock.

The Times understands that senior figures behind the bill to force an extension on Boris Johnson cleared their plan with EU capitals before it was published this week. They received reassurances that the European Council, which is made up of EU leaders, would not stand in the way of one final extension if it was approved by parliament.

One figure in the rebel group, which also includes Labour MPs, said that while President Macron of France had been the “most sceptical” about a further delay, they were told he would not stand in the way. “We don’t think it will be granted — we know it will be,” they said of the EU leaders’ likely response. “Those discussions have already taken place.”

The group has also drawn up plans to take Boris Johnson to court if he follows through on his pledge not to put his name to an extension request.

Senior lawyers were understood to have been involved in the drafting of the legislation and advised the MPs it had a “95 per cent chance of being upheld in the courts”. They believe that even if the government challenged the legality of the legislation the courts would make a ruling before October 31 that would prevent Mr Johnson from triggering a no-deal Brexit by default. Yesterday peers approved the bill, clearing the way for it to become law.

Opposition parties have also pledged to thwart the prime minister’s call for a general election until Brexit has been delayed, as they seek to exert maximum pressure.

Jeremy Corbyn, the Labour leader, met the leaders of the Liberal Democrats and Plaid Cymru yesterday. The parties have agreed they will not vote for an election when Mr Johnson brings the issue back on Monday. Opposition parties will veto any poll before a Brexit extension has been agreed. The move leaves the Conservative leader on course for another humiliating defeat under the Fixed-term Parliaments Act, which requires two thirds of MPs to vote for a general election.


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Asked if he would resign if he failed to deliver Brexit on his “do or die” deadline of October 31, the prime minister said: “That is not a hypothesis I’m willing to contemplate. I want us to get this thing done.” On a visit to Scotland he accused Labour and the SNP of seeking to “run away from an election”.

Ministers are expected to step up their attack on Jeremy Corbyn and Labour over the weekend, accusing them of running scared of an election.

Tom Brake, the Liberal Democrat Brexit spokesman, said: “We are not going to give the prime minister the election he is so desperate for until an extension has been secured and the risk of crashing out of the EU without a deal is completely eliminated.”

Mr Brake said that opposition parties wanted the election to be on or after November 1. “He’s desperate for an election and presumably would be keen to have one after October 31,” he said.

Mr Johnson has called for an election on October 15, before the next European Council meeting, arguing that would allow the public to decide whether or not to delay the UK’s departure. Opposition parties warned that he could then change the election date until after the UK has left the EU, something No 10 rejects. Labour is understood to believe there could still be an election before the end of October, although time is running out.

An election after the end of October would leave Mr Johnson open to the charge of breaking his promises and facing a stiff challenge from Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party.

 

Democracy in action.

 

O tony tony, go check your logic scot Lab has been wiped out for years, it is the scot Cons that are in trouble from the Nats now,they lose those 10 to 13 seats and that really helps boris now and in the future.

 

Losing 35 left wing windbag Scottish MPs and 7 Labour would be a boost for everyone south of the Border

 

Wrong. I happen to be comfortable. Steady income, good lifestyle. Doesn't stop me believing that the system is unfair.

If the UK BREXITS and it leads to an independent Scotland in Europe I'd be delighted to be free of the Tory bastards. The SNP aren't perfect but they're not Lords and Ladies and Old Etonians scratching each other's backs.

 

What puzzles me is why cannot the rest of the UK have a referendum on kicking the Scots out of the UK?, Save the rest of us a fortune in tax we subsidise them with and not have to listen to them moaning that the rest of us do not give them enough to waste

 

The SNP do not speak for Scotland. Empty vessels make most noise.
I pay more tax here than I would if we were back in England.

 

Why is that a betrayal of the people? They’ve not signed anything they’ve just spoken about a possibility that you don’t personally agree with.

 

...yes it does. Parliament can legislate to do near enough whatever it wants providing it has a majority, and it can pass through the upper house.

The Prime Minister can theoretically deny Royal Ascent, but in practice this would trigger a constitutional crisis and hasn’t been used since the early 18th century.

 

Wasn’t a million miles off with this prediction last November.

Think we’ll probably have an election on November 28th or December 5th. I can’t really see any earlier opportunity. Opposition parties have already ruled out passing an election motion on Monday, and then parliament will be prorogued until mid-October. They won’t pass an election motion in the first week as you might as well wait until after the EU summit where the extension will (assuming something very strange has happened in the meanwhile), upon which it’ll be passed on Monday to begin the minimum required 5-week short campaign.

Think this is a bit of a misstep from Labour personally. As we saw with Boris Johnson speaking in front of the WY Police, we’re effectively already in an election campaign - just without the broadcast rules to help them. That is, unless they literally aren’t ready yet either organisationally or financially.

The calculation is pretty simple. Polling shows that Scotland has gone, so no Tory seats there. Can the Tories gain more seats from Labour than they lose at the other end from the Lib Dems or the SNP (or Labour for that matter)? It’s a hell of a gamble, and I’m not 100% sure it’ll pay off. The other unspoken element though is that they’ll replace all of their rebel MPs with MPs who won’t rebel.

Hostage to fortune time again, but if in the upcoming election (it’s happening, you can’t run a government on a majority of -45) the Tories get fewer than 310 seats, we’re having a second referendum and an opposition coalition government. Between 310 and 340 and it’s a no-deal Brexit. 340 plus and you get a rebadged version of May’s deal passing with a comfortable enough majority.

They don’t actually want a no deal Brexit, or they’d have done literally ANY of the necessary preparations for it.

 

I disagree, it would be my view that Parliament has outstripped its power here. You are right Parliament can legislate on just about anything. This is the point, the EU are very specific on this only the Prime Minister can extend or indeed revoke article 50. In this situation under our law you cannot legislate to then force that specific person ie the Prime Minister to undertake that specific task, they can only advise. If that was the case the EU would have said any extension or revoking of article 50 must be voted on in Parliament. What I am not sure about is which law is going to take precedence. My guess is that the government will take this all the way to Court. All possible outcomes are still in play here, as we have never been down this road before.

The government have a good case, given they are still trying to enforce a legally binding referendum from 2016, they have offered a GE to break the dead lock, but the so called rebels have turned it down because they want to force the Prime Minister to break that promise to the people and ask for yet another extension if he is unable to get a deal. That is extremely unlikely as the EU are not going to budge until this has all unravelled.

In conjunction with putting this Bill through Parliament the rebels have consulted a foreign power to fine tune it and come up with the dates; the same people are also responsible for negotiating a deal with the government. If that is not a betrayal I don’t know what is. I wouldn’t trust any of them, they have been discussing the Bill with the EU, what else have they been discussing with them? Tactics maybe? Our MP’s are elected by the British ppl, not the EU leaders, yet they are about to turn down another request for a GE to allow them to elect a new Parliament while they scurry off to the EU leaders to decide how to shaft the ppl of our country.



While I am on the subject of betrayals, we have the speaker. He allowed all this under his watch, he allowed an Emergency debate. What Emergency? The situation with the looming exit day has been there since the last extension in June or whenever, and of course March. Yet they all buggered off on their jolly holidays without a thought for the Emergency. Suddenly we have to have an Emergency debate.

 

Wouldn't you think the country is in a constitutional crisis now ?.

 

But is all that extra tax spent in Scotland?

 

What if BJ quits as PM on the morning that he is supposed to ask for the extension?