Ownership Structure

paulos - thanks. Do they have the same financial year? Recording of transfers could be lost in timing, to come out later.

I'm not trying to criticise you anyone digging up information. I appreciate that. I just think a lot of others are jumping to conclusions for which there is insufficient evidence.

 

They are all June year ends so I don’t think there are any timing issues, we are obviuosly looking at out of date information though so things could have changed, however, if there were any equity injections into the UK companies they would appear on Companies House fairly soon after the event and there have been none.

No problem at all, I have tried to highlight where there is a fact vs where I have had to make assumptions but it is quite tricky with the limited information available. The main thing I am uncertain of is the interest rate on that loan, there is a possibility it is less than 12% but that is my best guess. There is a possibility some further loan advance went into the German co but I think it is unlikely to be a significant amount.

 

I'd still be cautious about quoting any interest rate. A loan liability can increase for other reasons. Loans can vary with covenants or contingency charges, paying extra interest or charges if certain limits are exceeded. It's also possible it might have been a staged loan for some reason or a loan facility that is drawn down as required. A variable loan would likely not be the same through the year as at year-end so calculating an interest rate - if there was one - might be difficult. If you think about it, they probably bought (barring good fortune) a loss-making club that was likely to need unknown variable amounts of cash in the year ahead and might have made the loan flexible in nature from the offset, making changes from one year-end to the next quite likley to be down to more than just interest.

I hope this makes sense.

 

Yes, that all makes sense and in principle I agree that the loan could have all sorts of terms attached and could be staged or have additional draw down facilities. I accept that it is probable the loan does have additional drawdown facilities should further cash be required.

The fact is, however, that the loan balance has increased by €700k as per the published balance sheet. If, that is due to a further draw down then the question is where is that cash? It isn't in ER Sportsgroup as their cash balance has only increased by €100k. If further cash was provided to one of the UK companies it would either be equity and therefore we would see that in one of the UK balance sheets as an increase in capital, or a loan. If it was a loan we would see that in the German balance sheet (which we don't) and in the UK balance sheet, which again we don't.

This is why I believe on the balance of probabilities that the vast majority of that increase is interest, however, accept that there is a possibility it could not be.

 

700k is the exact amount that R&R said was the projected loss for 2017/18 season.

 

jokers

 

I believe that is what they said yes. That wouldn’t be included in my figures though as all mine are based on accounts to 30 June 2017 (the latest available). Any loss (or profit) for 17/18 season would be shown in the accounts to June 2018 which won’t be available for some time yet.

 

If only there was a league one table based on which club has the most accountants amongst it's supporters. I think we would be in with a great shout of the play-offs, if not automatic promotion .
Joking apart it is most enlightening.

 

At least Edin will know where to look when he sacks his next accountant!

 

He'll be divorced if that happens.

 

Do you fancy the job Paulos?

 

Unfortunatly not to me it's not, a bit like the off side rule .

 

Not for £1m a year!

 

It is a bit of a mystery to the majority of us. However, I had to read @paulos and @Dennis postings several times it eventually began to sink in. Enlightening, but also worrying because what seems common place is a shock to me. It feels like our club is run on fresh air; the other interesting facet which I had inclining is the club is funded by fans, sponsors. We have more power than we imagined and we have the right to have competent ppl running our club. The owners put money in intially but now looking to take that back whether we can afford it or not.

 

When the product on the pitch is fine we fans tend not to dig too deep, but some of the stuff I'm reading doesn't sound too good although it might be how businesses function, I'm still not a big fan of either sadly.

 

Unless you have a wealthy backer willing to pump millions, how else should a football club be operated other than incoming money it receives?

 

One thing to remember on this is that in the year to June 2017 the club made a small profit even after any salary paid to Edin and any management fees. In the year in question things were running pretty smoothly and as expected from a business perspective. Has we got promoted at the owners started to take more out would that have been a big issue? Now that the club is expecting to make losses and things aren’t going well we don’t actually know how that will change things. Will they be willing to stop taking out and start putting in? If revenues start to drop significantly and large amounts are still being taken out then we could have big problems. But at this moment in time we don’t know.

 

2017 we had a lot of things fall into place. I'm not sure how it will be accounted for and whether transfer income fell in this or the next financial year.

There was the Nakki Wells sell on, Andre Wisdom sell on and play-offs/Wembley. Over £1.5m of exceptional income. We'd be really in trouble if we didn't make a profit.

Some of this was reinvested in players. Poleon and McCarten were bought during summer. Jones, Wyke and Vincelot had been signed earlier that season as well. We also got money for Hanson and Clarke.

 

How much of that has been payoffs to sacked / failed staff and players, and payments and expenses paid to himself and his wife under his tenure? Add to that the money paid to Agents and expenses to "replace" the exodus.

I wouldn't be surprised if we're actually paying more money to people no longer at the club than the people who are actually here! (with a couple of exceptions)^.

Every single penny wasted by the owners should be paid back in full PLUS investment from their own pockets.

Look at the squad compared to 18 months ago, and the staff!
Pretty much everyone who cared about the club has gone. It's like being sent back to the Dark Ages, on AND off the pitch!