Most liked posts in thread: Mark Hughes Choosing to Sub Banks vs Graham Alexander Subbing Both Smith and Chapman

I think the difference was Jon, that Hughes surrendered momentum to “hold on” for draw. Alexander tried to shore things up to keep a win.

 

At Carlisle we should have had the momentum to go for it after the equaliser. Instead Hughes bottled it for penalties which we never achieved anyway. He never recovered from that substitution. It was the single worst substitution I’ve ever seen in nearly 40 years of watching football.

 

Massive false equivalence to try and further an agenda that Hughes was unfairly judged for his abysmal decision.

Carlisle had everything to lose by going gung ho. Maybe they'd have preferred not to have penalties but it wasn't remotely close to the 'do or die' scenario that Barrow were dealing with. Losing 3-1 instead of 2-1 was no concern for them.

Carlisle were never going to approach the last 5 minutes like Barrow did tonight. Equally, we were in no way in any need of a 3rd goal. Leaving Banks on the pitch gave us a real chance of winning that game. He'd been a threat all through the second half and we had our tails up after his goal.

The two situations couldn't be more different. It was such a bad decision that Hughes had to make up that Banks was tired. He couldn't face the humiliation of admitting that it was tactical because he'd have opened himself up to the criticism of what a monumentally awful decision it was.

 

The difference was that Barrow were going to launch the kitchen sink at us for 5 minutes. It was a completely different scenario. They had to equalise. It was do or die for them. They were going to commit far more bodies forward so leaving attacking players on was much more of a gamble.

The Carlisle scenario was different in that we were completely in the ascendency in a game where Carlisle would be more conservative as they had so much more to lose. Sitting back in that game killed us when we really didn't need to sit back. Tonight we literally had no choice. Attacking after going 2-1 up for the last 5 minutes would've been suicide.

 

Sorry Jon but I couldnt disagree with your OP more! Last night GA shut up shop within injury time to protect a 2-1 lead in a must win game.
At Carlisle, having been battered, we restored parity and their lads were down and out. MH decided to shut up shop with the sole objective of getting to pens which would have given us no more than a 50% chance of going through! The worst substitution I've seen in 50 years watching.
I didnt want Hughes gone after that game but looking back, I'm convinced he mentally checked out of the club then, as he clearly resented the totally justified flak that came his way.

 

I disagree, the difference for me is that when GA made the subs we were in a winning position.

Hughes completely surrended momentum to hold out for a draw. That's the unforgivable bit for me.

If we'd been beating Carlisle, made the sub, still conceded and then lost on penalties it wouldn't have been criticised anywhere near as much.

 

This.

Last night the subs were made as the result as it stood would do for us, against an opponent who had nothing to lose and could just go for it for five minutes.

The inexplicable sub against Carlisle was completely different, we weren't in a winning position and our opponent had just as much to lose as we did. We had finally gained a little momentum which we had handed to them at half-time in the first leg, and the managers immediate response killed that stone dead and handed the initiative straight back.

It also contributed to our defence and goalkeeer being all over the place for the goal that cost us, so failed on a tactical/system level.

 

At least you can admit there was a difference. The other frustration was that Hughes had form for doing this. Often he'd sit back and 'defend' a one goal lead against really poor sides only to give away an equaliser. Saw enough of it this season to convince me he's the worst manager we've had since Peter Taylor.

 

Spot on. GA did right last night. Once you know it’s going to be a midfield and forward battle to hold on to the lead, and you just know there will be over 5 mins of extra time you take off the two small guys who are unlikely to win ping pong in midfield and bring on bigger lads.

GA got it spot on.

Hughes got it wrong seeking the game petering out to penalties in the HOPE we would clinch it.

 

I actually thought our best chance of promotion last season was the auto’s, Once we blew that I did not fancy us in the playoffs. We didn’t have the right attitude and I think that was down to MH. That is why we blew the auto’s ultra cautious and settling for a draw.

 

The difference is we weren't winning when Hughes subbed off Banks unlike yesterday.

 

I think that it was trying to ensure the job was done for a shorter period of time does make a difference. Also it was a double sub, but most of all, it worked.
I do appreciate your point.

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Tonight Alexander got it spot on.

 

Had Barrow equalised last night, it would have been far from a "devastating failure". We were under the cosh for most of the second half, they were the better team and we rode our luck - just like we did at Walsall

I cannot forgive Hughes for the Banks sub when we were in the ascendency, and I cannot forgive the players for a mediocre display. One of the worst trips home, wondering what might have been. But that was last seasons disappointment. Let's see what Saturday brings and not dwell on previous bad memories. GA got it spot on last night

 

I think they’re pretty different to be honest.
Alexander made the positive change, a little later than I wanted admittedly, but got the job done.
The goal we scored was more against the run of play last night, whereas the Carlisle goal was with the momentum. Their defence was panicking and their crowd on edge.
The change that Hughes made just gave their team and fans an unexpected lift - I agree with the comment about it being the single worst substitution in my time of watching City.
That wasn’t the case last night.

All that said, it is obviously easier with hindsight

 

I agree the goal was offside and Billy Clarke messed up…
But seriously different kettle or fish. Knock out games are a different breed-try to win at all cost at the end and don’t hamstring yourselves. But also play the opponent (which Hughes lacked) and I think is what GA did today-though keeping Smith on for the break would have made more sense.
Compared to last year Banks was arguably our best attacking player outside of one of the league’s top scorers who we also had

 

I said the same Onside. Once the autos were gone, I didn't think we stood a chance in the playoffs.

 

I personally think there is an overall benefit having a team of six footers , on that basis you could afford the one “ smaller” playmaker . The benefit it gives in the middle of the field when there is a battle going on is that you are more likely to win the header than not.

Imagine Bobby, Chappy and Smith ( or combinations of ) protecting the middle? That’s what GA recognised and quickly dealt with it last night. Credit to him imho.