Quantcast
  1. Welcome to Bantam Talk

    Why not register for an account?

    Not only can you then get fully involved in the community but you also get fewer ads

  2. Premium Membership now Available


    Please see this thread for more details

    Dismiss Notice

Valley parade bond

Discussion in 'City Talk' started by Park bantam, Feb 5, 2020.

  1. QCFC BANTAM

    QCFC BANTAM Regular Starter
    Qatar 2022 Entrant P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2018
    Messages:
    2,157
    Likes Received:
    2,877
    Seen on BBC website that Swindon are asking fans to buy a share at £19.69 a piece to help cover some of the £2.2m agreed to buy ground freehold from the council.
     
    Jay likes this.
  2. Jay

    Jay Impact Sub

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2018
    Messages:
    1,047
    Likes Received:
    706
    Valley parade would cost more than 2mil
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  3. WilsdenBantam

    WilsdenBantam Squad Player
    Qatar 2022 Entrant P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Euro 2020

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2018
    Messages:
    7,134
    Likes Received:
    15,336
    The trouble with Valley Parade is it’s worth nowhere near what the pension fund probably want in property price terms. It’s a stadium in need of updating, so there’s a big cost already.

    Then look at it from a business point of view, it’s in one of the cheapest most horrible places in the country, the value of the land it’s built on is worth next to nothing. If you nicked it down and built houses, you wouldn’t have a chance of making a profit, unless they give you the land and stadium for free.

    Other than nostalgia I see no reason why an owner of the club would want to bother buying it, they’d be much better formulating a business plan on relocating and finding a way to pay for it.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  4. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
    Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    5,998
    Likes Received:
    15,098
    The Pension Fund is receiving over £450k pa at the moment and will do so for the next 8 years with further inflationary rises due. For doing nothing, they'll receive around £4mill in rent from the club over the remainder of the lease and if we were to move elsewhere would be left with land with almost zero value once land reclamation costs are factored in.

    But the bigger issue is what we would do at that point. A 25,000 capacity stadium, say, would cost in the range £40-50mill plus land costs and I wouldn't imagine the current owner being willing to commit to that sort of investment even if there were other sources of funding available. The clock is ticking on this and i'd hope that the club's long term plan has already earmarked this as the biggest issue just around the corner. Or maybe not!
     
    Onside and WilsdenBantam like this.
  5. WilsdenBantam

    WilsdenBantam Squad Player
    Qatar 2022 Entrant P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Euro 2020

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2018
    Messages:
    7,134
    Likes Received:
    15,336
    You’re optimistic I think!

    I wonder if @wetherbywhaler@wetherbywhaler knows anything about any long term plans?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  6. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
    Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    5,998
    Likes Received:
    15,098
    Less optimistic ... more sarcastic! ;)
     
    Onside and WilsdenBantam like this.
  7. borderlescott

    borderlescott Squad Player

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2018
    Messages:
    4,981
    Likes Received:
    8,535
    In the other thread fans were whinging about us not having our own training facilities, is it any wonder if we are paying £450k pa for the stadium.

    He really did stitch us up like a kipper there, Gibb, didn't he. Absolute rat. How much have we paid for the stadium by the time the lease is up? .................All for an asset the club owned.
     
  8. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
    Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    5,998
    Likes Received:
    15,098
    No he didn't stitch us up at all. We needed the money from the pension fund to stop the club from entering administration again and probably being liquidated. We still owed around £14m from Admin 1 prior to Gibb coming on board. According to the Prof at the time, there were several offers on the table to raise money from the ground. He and JR accepted Gibb's offer as the best one available.
     
  9. borderlescott

    borderlescott Squad Player

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2018
    Messages:
    4,981
    Likes Received:
    8,535
    How much did we raise upfront by flogging to the ground to the pension fund?

    The pension fund must have made a nice profit on it overall if he's been coining in at least 450k pa over what, a 25 year lease? The lease payment was even higher in the past when we had the oversized shop too. Wasn't it £650k ish then?

    It just goes to show the constraints the club still have to work under. For many clubs in our division, they'll be paying peppercorn rent, if nothing at all. It remains a big chunk out of our budget.
     
  10. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
    Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    5,998
    Likes Received:
    15,098
    Let's tick to the facts. The club raised £2.5mill from the sale of the ground to the pension fund. The original lease was £300k pa with inflationary increases at periodic points. The pension fund even let the club off the first year's lease to help with short term cash flow issues. Separately, the offices, shop and car parks were sold to a property company (the Pru) also for £2.5m again for an initial lease of approx £300k with periodic inflationary increases. In both case, the club took the best deals on the table available to them to raise the £5m due to one of the banks.

    Why did we have to raise the money so quickly? For the simple reason that the commitment we gave to one of the banks in the first administration wasn't met and the bank was about to place the club in administration. The club was basically insolvent and without the money from the sale of the ground and the sale of the offices etc, we would have been liquidated. It wasn't the Rhodes' money which saved the club at that juncture, it was the Gibb Pension Fund and the Pru. Without the cash, the club wouldn't be here now.

    Has the pension fund made a profit on the deal? Undoubtedly yes .. with the benefit of hindsight. Had the club been liquidated or defaulted on the lease (as ML once threatened), then it clearly would instead have lost a lot of money.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice