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Transgender in sport

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Rogered Tart, Sep 5, 2024.

  1. Rogered Tart

    P.L. 23/24 Top 30 Euro24 PL Entrant P.L.24/25 Entrant

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  2. SimonW

    Staff Member Admin Moderator P.L.24/25 Entrant Qatar 2022 Entrant

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    It's completely wrong. Biological males and biological females are not the same even if they have fully transitioned. The average man has better reactions, they are stronger, they are taller and actually their gate is a better fit for sport (There is a reason why women footballers have real issues with ACL injuries, its an epidemic).

    Trans activists will always bring up that treatment sees them lose muscle mass and strength and sure it's true but it doesn't offset the advantages. And the Testosterone levels they have to get down to are significantly above even the upper levels women who don't have a DSD condition.

    If you look at many of the trans-women who have made the Olympics or Paralympics they are usually anywhere from 10 to 30 years older than the next oldest competitor which highlights the advantage, a biological women isn't making the teams at those ages.

    And look at Lia Thomas, the trans-women collegiate swimmer. Before transitioning her NCAA rankings in the various distances she swam as a male were very average, after transitioning she was top 10 in all the distances. So she has gone from someone who technically just an average swimmer when she didn't have a physical advantage to being a top NCAA swimmer.

    And actually motorsport highlights the advantage men have over women. There have been some highly skilled female drivers who in less physical and shorter formulas can be highly competitive but they struggle to make it to things like F1 or Indycar because their skill has to be so much higher because of the biological advantages as they get into formulas whose cars and race lengths require more and more physicality. The 5 women to drive in F1 races have only scored 0.5 points in the 29 events they have entered.

    And TBH I think you just have to look at the opinion of Caitlyn Jenner. As Bruce she won the Olympic Gold in Decathlon, which is probably the hardest Olympic event there is. if she thinks its unfair as someone who was a Gold Medalist and has transitioned then she without doubt knows what she is talking about.


    Also notice how it's always biological males not biological females who are calling for the right. Biological female who have transitioned could never compete against men which is why most women who consider themselves trans-men don't actually transition, they live as men but chemically and surgically they hold off transitioning so they can compete in women's sport which tells you everything.

    Trans people should be allowed to compete in sport but there needs to be a category for them (probably 2) where they can compete fairly. The argument is there isn't enough of them but that was the argument for a long time about para sport which is only growing because having these competitions makes those with disabilities have a purpose for taking sport more seriously and increases numbers and that would be the same for trans. If you had trans categories the number of serious trans athletes would rise
     
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    #2 SimonW, Sep 6, 2024
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2024
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  3. trevor

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    Its not hard really,
    Penis = Man
    Vagina = Woman
     
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  4. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    that simple rule didn’t seem to hold for the Boxing in the olympics with people wanting two of the competitors to be kicked out even though they had never had penis
     
  5. SimonW

    Staff Member Admin Moderator P.L.24/25 Entrant Qatar 2022 Entrant

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    That's a bit oversimplified. A trans-woman who has fully transitioned doesn't have a Penis and while in some cases treating them the same as someone born a biological woman might make sense in sport it doesn't.

    For example, if you have a fully transitioned trans-woman they have gone through both chemical and surgical transition and that has removed the male hormone-caused desires that can make men a threat and its also removed the genitalia that could be used in a sexual attack on women so that threat has been removed, they are just as likely to get attacked by biological women so letting them use women safe-spaces shouldn't be an issue but where those who choose not to transition or have only chemically transitioned still pose that threat even though the majority arent a threat so shouldn't be allowed.

    You can't remove the sporting advantages though, you can lower them but they will always exist.


    And when you get to DSD things get even more complicated. There's a while host of conditions under that banner and the whole 'Do they have a penis or vagina' criteria doesn't work as it can include them having both, having no penis or outer testicles but having internal ones leading to elevated t-levels and a host of other things that don't fit ina binary classification
     
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  6. Idlebantam

    P.L.24/25 Entrant P.L. 20/21 Top 10

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    Just have a transgender Olympics and have done with it
     
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  7. ahar964

    P.L.24/25 Entrant Supporter

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    Is that you in your profile pic Simon? Just asking because you seem very well informed . (As you usually are)
     
  8. SimonW

    Staff Member Admin Moderator P.L.24/25 Entrant Qatar 2022 Entrant

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    No it's the actress Rose McIver, specifically from the show iZombie. Was only supposed to be temp as I was testing a fix to the profile image system with bigger source images so I was pulled the first tv shoe background image from my Plex media server and then never got round to changing it.

    And I'm of the opinion that if you are going to form an view on a subject you should do some reading to get an balanced understanding, especially in the modern world where it's do easy to get caught in echo chambers that not only can validate falsehoods but it's used by extremists at both ends to help push their agenda
     
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  9. SimonW

    Staff Member Admin Moderator P.L.24/25 Entrant Qatar 2022 Entrant

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    While the Paralympics could support it's own event when it was much smaller, with all the extra concerns around events these days it would be unlikely to be viable. It would have too few entrants and too small an interest from spectators, media companies and sponsors to make it work. Just look at Invictus as an example that is losing a shed load by basically being seen as a second rate Paralympics. It would have to be new trans events inside the actual Olympics for it to be viable initially and then maybe split out later when it's bigger although that might give off the wrong message. Not sure what the logistics would be like but really it would be better from an image pov if we didn't even have the Paralympics and it was instead just one combined event than to end up with 3 separate ones
     
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  10. Rogered Tart

    P.L. 23/24 Top 30 Euro24 PL Entrant P.L.24/25 Entrant

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    I've enjoyed some of the Paralympic stuff, especially the weightlifting. But with them seemingly going down this route of transgender i'll probably lose interest. Was already losing interest in the main olympics anyway.
     
  11. trevor

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    No matter what they take or what bits are chopped off or modified the Tranny to woman men will be much stronger than most natural women so is unfair for them to compete against them
     
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  12. ahar964

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    It was only a very poor joke Simon. I did add that you are usually well informed
     
  13. bantamlad92

    bantamlad92 Squad Player

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    The paralympic Table Tennis is actually crazy. There's a guy beating people by holding it in his mouth.
     
  14. SimonW

    Staff Member Admin Moderator P.L.24/25 Entrant Qatar 2022 Entrant

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    Weirdly I've never been able to get into the Summer Paralympics but I enjoyed the last Winter one. I don't know if its just the timing as Jan/Feb is a quite time for me for work but August/Sept is busy so I can't spend as much time watching or if its just the setup, the Summer ones split up way more of their events into disability categories but the Winter ones have a more interesting way of handling many of the events where they use a handicap system, for example for time-based events a second isn't the same for everyone, for the most able a second on the clock is less than a second in the real world and for the most disabled a second is more than a second in the real world which just IMHO makes it easier to follow than having the same event multiple times
     
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