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Surely Not! Solar Panels and Electric Charging Points

Discussion in 'City Talk' started by Bigrod, Feb 9, 2023.

  1. Bigrod

    Bigrod Captain
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    Having been told that the structure of the Valley Parade stadium was not suitable to support Solar Panels, the pay back timescale was such that the lease could expire, then wait for it…………..’Projects will include the installation of solar panels and electric car charging points at Valley Parade’. https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/23309235.bradford-city-sign-contract-energy-firm-watt-co-uk-2026/?ref=eb
    I can understand that the increase in fuel prices may have increased the attraction, but the basic structure of the roofs and walls of Valley Parade have not changed! So if it was not possible four years ago, because of structural issues, how come it is now?
    There is only four years until the lease expires on Valley Parade, so I would be very surprised if the club could recoup money on the installation cost during that time!
     
  2. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player
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    It's 90 minutes once a fortnight on average. If you absolutely need to drive an electric car wouldn't it be very easy to plan your journey and charge en route for the very few people traveling such a long distance to games?

    Seems like moaning for moanings sake to me.
     
  3. ahar964

    ahar964 Squad Player
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    I can't imagine the charging points would be for accessible for fans on a matchday. Probably mainly for staff and official visitors during the week
     
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  4. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    Most places now have charge points for staff although not enough to facilitate the amount of electric vehicles planned in the future.
     
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  5. Stafford Bantam

    Stafford Bantam Captain
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    Solar panel technology is improving rapidly and the last couple of years has seen the development of super lightweight panels, although I'm not convinced it was "impossible" 4 years ago.

    As regards as EV chargers are concerned, if my experience is anything to go by then those EV chargers that have been put in at football grounds, such as Forest Green Rovers and Stevenage, are unavailable on match days.

    My car has a range of 250 miles in perfect conditions; this can come down to 180 to 190 in the worst conditions (cold, wet and dark conditions requiring the use of wipers, lights and heating). My return journey for home matches is exactly 200 miles, which means for most of the season I don't need to charge my car until I get back home. For those matches at the peak of winter, a short coffee and charge stop on my outward journey is sufficient. Even if there were chargers available, at the ground, I don't think I'd use them, as I prefer to park at a location where I can get away quickly after the match.
     
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  6. Kevin1954

    Kevin1954 Squad Player
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    Agree, I have one , even though it can do 320 miles in summer, I plan accordingly. There will be so many electric cars by 2030, they couldn’t supply enough charge points at grounds.

    Best way, when they do eventually “invest” whilst Odsal is being filled in. Turn an area into a huge park and ride scheme , as well as “ affordable “ housing.
     
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  7. Kevin1954

    Kevin1954 Squad Player
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    That would be the scenario for sure.
     
  8. Bigrod

    Bigrod Captain
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    From a personal point of view, I am not at the stage of getting an electric car, so the charging facilities wont have an impact on me for at least three years.

    The issue of the structure of Valley Parade, suddenly being suitable to have Solar Panels attached is more perplexing! If it can then great. We were told quite clearly that this option was not feasible.

    Clearly the club could have battery storage facility, and if surplus electricity was produced, then sell it to the National Grid, which is the process which friends of mine who have solar panels use to their advantage.

    On a match day, the club will use electricity for far more than 90 minutes every two weeks, the stadium will have staff in from early morning until early evening. Similarly the majority of the staff are located at Valley Parade and it is open several days a week.

    Perhaps the elephant in the room, is why do it now, if the lease at VP is about to expire? The initial cost of installing equipment and running it for sometime, has to be taken into account. That suggests to me that there is going to be announcement about extending the lease at Valley Parade for a considerable period of time.
     
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  9. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    We will definitely be announcing an extension of the lease, that is without question. When remains to be seen but City will never move from Valley Parade.
     
  10. Kevin1954

    Kevin1954 Squad Player
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    As said earlier Rod , technology is advancing and as it does costs of high tech , lightweight panels will drop. This backward country could solve lots of its energy supplies by thought and huge investments in the right place.
    Take for example electricity generation. Well thought out investments in supplying and fitting arrays of solar on the millions of UK roofs could and would have a huge impact in lessening our use of gas.
    Supply the householder whose roofs they are fitted with free electric and the remainder of which there will be lots, goes to the National grid. Once a battery is full , just export surplus generation direct to the grid.
     
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  11. Fordy117

    Fordy117 Just call me Mr Flip-Flop!
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    How ever the value of your car is dropping like a stone.

    EV’a losing around 5k on value already. In a month or so as supply is too high.

    Stay away from these cars.
     
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  12. Kevin1954

    Kevin1954 Squad Player
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    I sold my EV in OcT 2022 , 10 k on the clock , 16 months old, non runner , for more than I paid for it. I’ll say it again….
    I sold my EV , 10k on the clock in OcT 2022 ,16 months old, non runner, for more than I paid for it.

    With regards to used car prices they are ALL dropping and have been since Xmas. Don’t just be selective suggesting it’s EV’s only. People who know can easily make you look silly.

    All that’s happening is the used car market is stabilising BACK to how it used to be , pre pandemic, pr Ukraine war because component supply, especially chips and wiring looms are now enabling ALL manufacturers of ALL vehicle types Electric or Fossil to supply customers , hence pressure off the used car market.

    Anything else you need to trip up over Fordy?
     
  13. Fordy117

    Fordy117 Just call me Mr Flip-Flop!
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    EV are losing money quicker. Cheaper to have a petrol or diesel car. Supply is up 303% on Ev’s in the last 4 weeks. It’s a buyers market hence why prices are falling so quickly. So, no not tripped up because a lot has changed since October. Fuel coming down, electric gone up and supply for the cars silly.

    Why would you want to waste time charging a car? This country isn’t ready for EV’s.

    So, you think you can change the world in your electric nonsense without understanding everyone needs to change before change can really happen.
     
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  14. Park bantam

    Park bantam Regular Starter
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    Self charging hybrid is much better in my opinion
     
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  15. Kevin1954

    Kevin1954 Squad Player
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    Back tracking in your first sentence. Once that occurs the rest is drivel .
    Name the TWO worldwide manufacturers who dropped prices in the last month after spending the last 12 months putting them UP on three seperate occasions.

    TWO ARE?
     
  16. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    The problem with that is the batteries, there aren't enough Rare Earth Elements for the world to meet even the phasing out of Petrol/Diesel cars that are planned let alone when you start factoring in every home needing a significant battery and the grid needing large arrays to store excess power generated from Solar that unlike fossil fuel it can't just be scaled back when demand is lower than supply (or even Wind where the turbines can be turned off). The big problem with Gas right now for us is that we don't have ways to store it so we have to sell excess and then have to try and buy it back when we need it which if we can it's at inflated rates but it's much easier to build gas storage facilities (or to regenerate old mothballed ones) than it is to magic up rare earth sources.

    Until we have a breakthrough in battery tech which allows for a smaller physical size, with more capacity, cheaper, more robustness (both in lifespan and safety in general use, they are so easy to damage and potentially cause a fatal situation), more efficient charging, and less impacted by temperature while also not requiring rare earth metals (which as their name suggests are rare while also causing major ecological and health damage) then the move to solar and EV's is doomed. And the problem is they have been talking about a battery revolution since the 90's but none of the ideas has ever turned out to be viable so all we have got is a fairly minor interation's of rare-earth metal-based batteries. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that big revolution is going to come and be something affordable and viable before we implement the various green commitments that have been made by ourselves and much of the rest of the world
     
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  17. Kevin1954

    Kevin1954 Squad Player
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    As I said new tech is being developed, which you kindly repeated.
     
  18. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    The point is though new battery tech has been a priority now for well over 30 years because we have increasingly become more reliant on batteries in our everyday life. As I said though all the promising revolutions in battery tech that have been promised since the 90's (and there has been a lot of them) has failed to come to fruition, what we have got is improvements on rare-earth batteries and sure improvement help but they don't solve the problem. And if we do suddenly get a breakthrough tomorrow, so many resources have been put into it that it's not going to be cheap in that first gen and just looking at current battery tech when my MacBook pro needed a new battery because it had gone under the 80% health where current battery tech sees the life and performance of batteries fall off a cliff it cost be £120 for what's a fairly small battery (and I bought a 3rd party one so I didn't have apple tax on that). A tesla powerwall which while is one of the best storage options on the market costs almost £6k just to buy the unit (and most people will need an expert to come in to fix and connect it so you can more than double that) and you are only guaranteed 10 years of life but expect most people will get 20 out of them. The cost will be such that the majority of things that need batteries will stick to the much cheaper and widespread technology and it will be decades before the new more sustainable battery tech is mass-market ready which might then start to bring the costs down bit by bit over the course of years and decades
     
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  19. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
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    Rare-earth does not mean 'rare' as in 'scarce', because they most of them aren't rare at all.

    'Rare-earth', now, is pretty much a nonsense term.

    They're found at similar concentrations to common metals, and often found together.

    Cerium is extremely abundant, neodymium is abundant, lanthanum also abundant.

    Gold is massively more rare than the rarest 'rare-earth' metal.

    Part of the issue is most of the mining is done in China, but not because it's more abundant there; because they're slack, and have been prepared to rush and forsake ecological consequences.

    Rare-earths are spread evenly throughout the world, as they're the product of a specific time/layer of the Earth's evolution.

    They just found a bunch in Arctic Sweden that can be mined, the issue is finding more than can be mined, and mining it safely.

    Each continent needs to start mining rare-earths, basically, but yeah.

    They're not rare, at all.
     
  20. donhutchinsaffro

    donhutchinsaffro Regular Starter
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    It’s soulless and like driving an iPad. Sod off musky.
     

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