Most liked posts in thread: Stuart return?

The fact that we finished every season higher than the season before highlights my point

 

I would leave it while your behind if I were you

 

delving into his cup run, and other intricate details in a desperate attempt to discredit him I find strange.

 

I had to look into his cup run to see if I was wrong about the "no big wins" thing, I couldn't remember if he'd beaten one of the big teams on the way to the final. Checking whether your perceptions are right is pretty standard I would have thought?

If he'd had a big cup win it would have been to his credit.

 

If your going to reply to a post then look at why I replied with the above stats, the debate was nothing to do with what your replying to, we all get your point but in this particular post it's not relevant.

 

it was a desperate attempt to discredit his cup run to the final. you have even made it sound as if Dundee United, St Johnstone and Dundee are lower league nobodies, when in reality, at that time Dundee United were a better side than Motherwell, and Saints and Dundee were the equivalent of Motherwell. so fairly decent results I'd say.

 

Ricc, it's not.

It's just when we say "got to a cup final" it can make it sound like the equivalent of getting to the FA Cup final and a wondrous achievement.

In the context of the "big win" thing it doesn't count.

I'm not quite so sure your analysis is correct. Dundee were a first division team that year and both St Johnstone (8th) and Dundee United (7th) were below Motherwell when Stuart took over.

 

I'm not sure you have your stats right mate, we beat Fleetwood at their plaice , and then had 6 defeats if you take the Yeovil game into account drawing at home to Bury.

 

for a team like Motherwell, that were at best a top 6 SPL side to finish 3rd, 2nd, 2nd and get to a cup final, it is a pretty good achievement.
you're making it sound as if they regularly finished just behind the old firm every year and McCall simply took advantage of the lack of Rangers to move up one place, and just played a load of lower division sides in the cup.

If you want to say I am over stating what he's done, then fine, I respect that opinion but you are absolutely trying to write it off and discredit him and the job.

 

You're going a bit over old ground.

Motherwell had finished 3rd just four years before McCall arrived, had qualified for the Europa League for 2 straight years and were already in the Semi Final of the cup when McCall took over. I'm definitely not saying he didn't improve them - he did and by more than 1 place - but it wasn't a massive improvement as they were already in that pack behind the old firm.

The first year he finished 2nd, the teams in 3rd, 4th and 5th were St Johnstone, Inverness Caledonian Thistle and Ross County. Is that really an incredible achievement?

When he got to the cup final 2 out of the 4 teams he played were lower league

Once again, I'm not writing it off or discrediting him, just context. I've told you how I measure the effectiveness of managers and no matter what you say about his time at Motherwell he still won't have hit any of them.

 

Oh dear 6 defeats and a draw then we are wanting to sack managers now after a couple of defeats

 

In which case, this debate will never get anywhere. you aren't been fair in your view of effectiveness. many better managers than McCall would also fail to hit your parameters.

 

I can't think of off the top of my head to be honest. Even if you ignore the subjective ones I'm sure that most managers who are experienced will tick at least some of the boxes. Especially after 5 jobs and 11 years.

Any examples?

 

Unless I'm mistaken in Stuart's first season back McCall actually trumped anything Phil Parkinson had done at league one level, I can't see how anyone could say with certainty what would have happened after McCall was sacked with 14 games till to play.
Certainly bringing a Championship manager altered very little, and then when he was offered the job on a permanent basis to build his own team, he jumps ship making excuses (as many said at the time) about not owning our own training facilities etc, and then Grayson comments on a Radio Leeds interview why he didn't take up the option never mentioning training facilities.

 

Since you asked.

Jose Mourinho.

will go down as one of the best managers of all time. probably the best Chelsea have ever had. however.

when he was sacked they were mid table. not better than where he found them.
he hasn't been promoted.
team building? it is well known he is divisive and he doesn't get on with all players, certainly splits the dressing room.
professional? if you call sacking his physio and blaming that on his teams failures, or publicly criticising half his squad professional then...

 

I'm not sure that is anything like what the majority on here post, but take Hopkin's decent spell out and if managers are judged on their success maybe the odd few are correct ?.

 

I think he's had a couple of big cup wins!!!

I also think he left Porto, Inter Milan and maybe even Real in a better position than when he took over. I'm not 100% certain though.

 

well, Stuart has won a play off semi final and a cup semi final. they're pretty big.


I was being purposely obtuse there with that example, but it shows that we can all pick and choose which aspects to focus on when trying to make a point.

 

I'm not quite sure wins against Fleetwood and Dundee United are quite the same thing!! I don't think they're that big.

I haven't picked and chosen the aspects. I've just named them and said Stuart has none. I can't think of many others good managers that tick no boxes.

 

look at those home attendances wow