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Sin Bin & Other Law Changes

Discussion in 'General Football' started by Offcomedun, May 21, 2021.

  1. Offcomedun

    P.L. 23/24 Top 10 P.L.24/25 Entrant Qatar 2022 Entrant Supporter Euro2020 Winner Euro 2020 P.L. 20/21 3rd Place

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    Ryan Sparks recently suggested introducing a sin bin as an alternative to yellow cards for professional fouls.

    1. Discuss.

    2. Are there any other changes that you'd like to see introduced (or reversed) to make to the game we love a fairer and better experience to play and watch?
     
  2. Offcomedun

    P.L. 23/24 Top 10 P.L.24/25 Entrant Qatar 2022 Entrant Supporter Euro2020 Winner Euro 2020 P.L. 20/21 3rd Place

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    One aspect of the game that I hate with a passion is players taking the ball into the corner to run down the clock at the end of games. Playing keepball by passing it around is fine - that requires skill and is perfectly acceptable in my view. But taking it to the corner and blocking it off is different - it's virtually impossible for the opposition to contest for the ball fairly, especially now that tackling from behind is outlawed.
    I appreciate that it's difficult to legislate against it in open play, although I'd like to see it fall into the (now rarely used) category of 'ungentlemanly conduct', which is bookable.
    One change that would be easily made is to require the ball to be played at least ten yards from corners before a teammate can touch it. That would at least stop teams winning late corners and holding it near the flag with two or more players around the ball while the defending team are powerless to prevent that because they have to be ten yards away when the corner is taken.
    Thoughts?
     
  3. bantam65

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    I'd like to see the reversal of the rule that forbids Bradford City winning a game.
     
    1975citygent and Dennis like this.
  4. bantam65

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    Defenders blatantly obstructing an attacker whilst "shepherding" a ball out of play.
     
  5. Offcomedun

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    That's not something that a law change can affect - it's a question of interpretation by referees. The obstruction law is pretty clear. As long as the ball is within the defender's playing distance then it's not obstruction, it's legitimate shielding. It's down to the ref to decide whether the distance between the ball and the defender is outside the perameter of playability.
     
  6. bantam65

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    When there is no intention to play the ball and the only intention is to prevent another player doing so....that is obstruction. There is no other interpretation.
     
  7. Offcomedun

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    No, not if the defender is within playing distance of the ball it isn't. It has always been possible to shield the ball from an opponent, without touching it, as long as the ball is within your playable reach.
    What you appear to want is a complete change in the obstruction law.
    Shielding the ball out of play is a major weapon in the defender's armoury. Defenders have already been heavily shackled by the modern tackle laws, which have virtually taken slide tackling and robust tackles out of the game and completely banned tackles from behind (quite rightly). Not to mention the modern offside law which makes it much harder to play attackers offside. Removing a defenders right to get between an attacker and legally shield the ball out of play (as long as it is within playing distance) would be a step too far in my view.
     
  8. SimonW

    Staff Member Admin Moderator P.L.24/25 Entrant Qatar 2022 Entrant

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    But then you limit corner routines. If a player coming for a short corner has to be 10 yards away that means he can be marked and tackled the second he gets the ball, this basically means either short corners stop being a thing or teams don't throw their big defenders up for them as a short corner now has a high risk of a break leaving the teams exposed. Corners are supposed to be an advantage to the team that wins it and removing options is nullifying part of that.

    If you want to stop it then a better change would be to require touches when shielding the ball which also helps combat defenders just shielding the ball out for a goal kick. There should maybe be a requirement that if you are blocking someone else from getting to the ball you have to touch it every x number of seconds, that way you either have to be playing the ball which not only makes shielding it harder but also increases the chance of a mistake. You could still let balls run out but you just either would have to not actively shield the ball or start shielding much later so you are dining so within the set length of time so as not to give away a foul
     
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  9. bantam65

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    Basically then....what you want is for an attacker not to be able to do the same as a defender can
    If an attacker shields the ball in the corner with no intention of playing it, even though it is close enough to do so.
    Pure hypocrisy.
     
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  10. Offcomedun

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    No, it's not the same thing at all. Defenders don't just stand there, hovering over a static ball. They shepherd out a moving ball and there are risks involved. If the attacker is quicker he may be able to get around the defender and keep it in. We've seen that happen many times. Or the defender accidentally touches it under pressure and concedes a corner or throw.

    But taking the ball into the corner just puts the game at a standstill. It's a time-wasting tactic and a very low risk one. The ball is static in the corner, the defender(s) can't get to the ball legally, especially if there are two or more attackers blocking them off. They often commit a foul in trying to reach it and the attackers can then hit a tap free kick and gather round the ball again, with the defenders forced to retreat ten yards, thus wasting even more time. It's just pure time-wasting, not part of the normal flow of the game, unlike shepherding a ball out of play.
     
  11. Offcomedun

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    Yes, that would be the downside, limiting corner routines. Your suggestion has merit, but those time-based laws never seem to work very well, as we've seen with the various attempts to speed up keepers releasing the ball.
    I don't want to make normal shielding harder - it's a normal part of the game and the obstruction law is there to stop it being abused. I just want to stop blocking off in the corner, which is time wasting, pure and simple. But it's difficult to think of a workable solution.
     
  12. bantam65

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    Feckin garbage!
    It's feckin blatant obstruction!
     
  13. Offcomedun

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    You clearly don't understand the difference between shielding and obstruction. Excerpt from FA Law 12:

    "A player may shield the ball by taking a position between an opponent and the ball if the ball is within playing distance and the opponent is not held off with the arms or body."

    This has been the case for donkey's years. It's crystal clear. It's not obstruction - if you're within playing distance you are deemed to be in possession of the ball, you don't have to play it, and it's up to an opponent to get round you to get to the ball.
     
  14. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    how to you stop someone without using your arms or body
     
  15. Offcomedun

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    I think it means you're not pushing back with your arms, holding them out wide to prevent an opponent getting round you, or deliberately leaning backwards to make contact with them. Simply putting your body between your opponent and the ball is fine.
     
  16. bantam65

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    Which is exactly what an attacker does at a short corner....yet you whine about that. Hypocrite.
     
  17. Offcomedun

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    But that's time wasting. You seem incapable of understanding the blatantly obvious difference between shielding a ball out of play, which then causes a restart, and holding a ball in the corner for as long as possible, preventing the opposition from playing it, simply to run the clock down. If you can't grasp the essential difference between the two then you should probably start watching tiddlywinks instead of football.
    Shielding is fine. Time wasting isn't.
     
  18. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    Arent they shielding it out to waste time as it then means the keeper has to come across for the ball, walk at a snail pace back to the opposite end of area and then place it , clean his boots and then moan at the players before kicking it
     
  19. Offcomedun

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    Depends when it's done. It can be a time wasting tactic, but it mostly isn't. Defenders shepherd the ball out of play all the time, from the first minute to the last, whether winning or losing. It's a normal part of the flow of the game and always has been. It requires a restart and it's up to the ref to make them get on with it or add time on if they don't.
    Taking the ball to the corner flag is a tactic that's only ever done in the last few minutes by winning teams. It has no purpose other than wasting time and is exceedingly difficult to counter legally, which is why I'd like to find a way to stop it, although I accept that it's difficult to know how.
     
  20. bantam65

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    More feckin twaddle.......
    You really should stop feckin digging....
     

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