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Premier League and EFL reform [UPDATE 3 Dec 2020: Rescue Package Agreed]

Discussion in 'City Talk' started by Fordy117, Oct 11, 2020.

  1. Wesser

    Wesser Fringe Player

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    Football has never lived in the real world, unlike in football would any company in the present financial climate continue to add to its wage bill even though it's income has been slashed.
     
  2. How

    How Knows Football
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    The same clubs who were so vocal in blocking the Saudi led take over at Newcastle. They are a cartel and don’t want anyone else upsetting the apple cart. They don’t want a repeat of Man City
     
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  3. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    If you read the proposal part of it is about removing that massive cliff that clubs fall off when they drop out of the PL that makes the parachute payments necessary. Even with Parachute payments the EFL currently gets 7% of the PL's income and most of that goes to the clubs that are receiving the parachute payments. Under the proposals, 25% of the PL income will find its way to the EFL. In addition, bundling the TV rights together should significantly increase the value of the EFL rights bringing in even more money.

    On West Brom it's good that they are investing in their training setup. As I've said I would have actually liked the infrastructure part of this to include the coaching and medical/sports science side and not just the grounds as especially in League 1 and 2 that's an area that's really lacking but it's not really showing any Ambition by West Brom to do anything but keep yoyoing. Their squad investment has a real feel of 'We will be back in the Championship next year so here are players that either will do a great job there or we will almost certainly be able to sell on for significantly more'. The best they could hope for was copying Sheffield United and hope they have a style that catches people out and gets them a second season but as we are seeing from Sheffield at the end of last season and now this season when teams learn to deal with them they haven't invested in enough PL quality players to keep it up and look like its going to be a real battle for them to stay out of the relegation fight. Them and Fulham were favourites to go down as soon as they got promoted and their business hasn't changed that, unlike Leeds who seem like they have invested with the view of staying in the PL for the long run
     
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  4. BradfordBanter

    BradfordBanter Squad Player

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    The government?
     
  5. How

    How Knows Football
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    I understand your points on teams promoted but why can’t the Premier league Look to reform the leagues and tv money without the top 9 clubs having all the say in the future? That’s a slippery slope and who knows what they could change in the future with the vote in their favour.
    The league is so popular because it’s so competitive right down to the bottom of the league. That’s why it has world wide appeal. The big clubs need to remember that
     
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  6. Fordy117

    Fordy117 Just call me Mr Flip-Flop!
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    Spot on! People need to stop thinking Liverpool & Utd had a conversation on Saturday night and came up with all this. The planning has been for years. The reason it's come out now is for three reasons 1) It was announced last week Sky & BT are charging 14.99 to watch some games this season 2)EFL want 250m 3) The government is doing nothing.

    Now, the point you made about Amazon and Netflix is massive. Amazon has dipped their foot in PL last season and Netflix haven't. It wouldn't shock me if Amazon and Netflix approached Liverpool & Utd with the suggestions and this is why the PL are scared because they now that they will lose out on tv control.

    This government is a set of idiots, so I am not shocked about them. This government isn't fit to run the country.

    25% of revenue going to the EFL is massive. It's fruitful. I don't see how EFL can not back this.
     
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  7. Fordy117

    Fordy117 Just call me Mr Flip-Flop!
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    Hearing one of the things is if it's rejected then the top 6 could just join the EFL and run it from there.

    Damn the PL are in trouble.
     
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  8. Stafford Bantam

    Stafford Bantam Captain
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    Playing devil's advocate here: Should we worry if the top 6 (or 9) are making a power grab in the Premier League, if it means the EFL gets a good deal?
     
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  9. How

    How Knows Football
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    I ask you this, the efl have known for 6 months that they are facing a massive black hole in finances. What have they done about it? Nothing.
    my theory is Parry has been discussing this for long enough with the top 6 and he knew we would get desperate as a league and have to accept it. It stinks
     
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  10. Fordy117

    Fordy117 Just call me Mr Flip-Flop!
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    Mate, what can he do about it? He asked the PL for 250m..He's asked the government for money and nothing!

    Yes, he might have seen the proposal recently but he wouldn't have been working on it for 3 years. Liverpool and Utd have been working on this for 3 years together.

    You have to understand the 250m isn't just going to get handed over now.The government have done nothing and Sky & BT have been taking the PL clubs to the cleaners during Covid!
     
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    #70 Fordy117, Oct 12, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2020
  11. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    Because it hasn't been working letting clubs who at best may spend 2 seasons in the league have the same say as those who have lots of seasons in the top half. These bottom clubs really have little interest in the league's long-term future as they aren't set up to have a long-term future in the league. Again it used to be a situation where it wasn't even needing 14 votes to pass something, I think it was any club could veto a change. Getting it down to 14 again I believe was something that came about in changing the international rights money distribution to further help the yoyo clubs be yoyo clubs. 14 still means getting any real change through is tough. it needs just 7 clubs to say no and it stands no chance. When 3 clubs go down each season it's pretty easy to get those votes from those who will benefit massively if they go down

    Again lets also look at another thing some of the big PL clubs have been pushing for. Going to away games is expensive as it is but so many of the smaller clubs charge United fans upto 3 times the amount that they charge the home fans for the same match, to a point that its becomes pretty common for United to pay the difference for the away fans. There has also been a trend of reducing away capacities for teams like United so they can sell more home tickets. There have been votes doing things to prevent both but the smaller teams are generally the ones who keep vetoing it because it benefits them thus screwing over lots of football fans. Which is why setting how many away tickets have to be offered and also caping away ticket prices is part of this proposal so it's fairer on fans, even though for many of the big 6 it will actually reduce their matchday income (United for example would have to offer the largest away allocation, larger than the current allocation which is already the largest in the league and sell those tickets below the cheapest home ticket)
     
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  12. How

    How Knows Football
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    Can you define not working? What hasn’t worked? Pre covid it was the shoddy efl running that has seen clubs like Bury go to the wall. Nothing to do with this golden parachute payment.
    The efl could introduce salary caps across the board and fix the mismanagement of clubs in one swoop. They don’t need this to do that but Parry is clearly working on the big 6’s behalf
     
  13. Stafford Bantam

    Stafford Bantam Captain
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    @SimonW@SimonW how do you think Manchester United and Liverpool, the two advocates for this plan, will get the support they need from other Premier League clubs?
     
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  14. How

    How Knows Football
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    They will attempt to bully their way to it and Parry has already said they should resign from the PL and join the EFL if they don’t get their way. Shambles. Get rid of Parry
     
  15. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    Yeah, that's part of the stipulations of the agreement that there is a guaranteed place in the Championship for the big 6 (and I think I read the 3 teams with the most time in the PL). Most of the PL TV deals have clauses in them which without these teams broadcasters would activate and the money in the PL would dry up

    Just the kind of things I've mentioned. Votes on things that would improve the league long term as well as improve English football as a whole constantly get sabotaged for the smaller clubs short term benefit. If it gets passed such as the first step of reducing the number of games top clubs have to play it usually. As I've already mentioned the PL was setup with the intention that it would reduce from 22 to 18. The reduction wasn't set in stone, the aim was to have the teams decide the best way to do it once the league was established. They got it down to 20 with money being thrown at relegated clubs but they haven't been able to get the next step of the reduction through, it would most likely need the parachute payments doubled further throwing the EFL out of whack. Most of the things that do get voted in are minor things that don't improve the league long term because its setup that the teams likely to be relegation fodder can deadlock it


    The rest of the big 6 will support it, most likely the 3 that will get the 'legacy' places will as well. The key will be the likes of Leicester and Wolves who are upwardly mobile (Maybe Leeds, as well as they, seem to show ambition to be back closer to where they used to be). That would be 11 or 12 so just 2 votes shy. I could see maybe Newcastle and West Ham being persuaded. And if not there is the simple fact part of the agreement with the EFL is these clubs can quit the PL and join the Championship. I don't know if they would take it up but certainly will make a couple of teams who see themselves as midtable and who shouldn't be relegation fodder even in an 18 team league seriously think about it
     
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  16. Interested Bystander

    Interested Bystander Important Player
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    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54505270
     
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  17. How

    How Knows Football
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    You’ve still yet to convince me what giving all the power to the top 6 does for the good of our game. You keep saying about the “lesser clubs” putting spanners into the works but how have they? They got to the premier league and got their right to vote like everybody else. And good for them. They did it on merit. There is no way they should throw that away. And for what a shortened league where they lose future money? Why?
    Also good luck convincing Newcastle to vote with the top 6. They will want the takeover to happen which the rest don’t want.
    Man united are desperate for this to go through because their crown has fallen on the floor and they can’t get it back. They don’t want to become another Leeds and lose their spot at the top table in the future.

    The only way a smaller league and no league cup benefits is the big 6 so they can play a lucrative international pl tournament every summer and also so they can play more Europeans game. It will be dressed up as a way to benefit the English game but it will not. They said the premier league in its original inception was to benefit the English game but it made it worse. It took the FA to build St. George’s park and rethink our coaching methods to get that sorted. The premier league had nothing to do with it
     
  18. Get Rid Of It

    Get Rid Of It Squad Player
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    Funnily enough, if the premier league was shrunk to 18 last season then the Villa and the 'Appy Ammers would have gone back down and just look at these two clubs at the moment, causing all sorts of mischief results wise.
    Sheffield Utd and Burnley did well then but not so much at the moment.
    If it drops to 18 clubs and no parachute payments then fun and games for the teams having a bad season.
     
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  19. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    Well let's look at another thing. You know this extra money that the EFL wants. For a few season now increasing payments to the EFL has been on the table. The big clubs have been fine with it but you know who keeps blocking it? The yoyo clubs who like coming back down to the Championship with guaranteed income many times most of the other Championship clubs. Everyone having more money doesn't benefit them. And again these yoyo clubs add very little, they are usually just whipping boys especially the club coming up via the playoff. The PL would have been so much better off having Brentford in it who have shown real forward-thinking that Fulham. Brentford may have gone back down still but you have to feel as a club they would have tried

    And actually, a shorter season played only on weekends would most likely INCREASE club income as it allows for a better TV schedule especially internationally which will increase the value. It also makes for more meaningful matches which again will increase the value.

    You are also forgetting that both UEFA and FIFA are pushing for more and more matches in their competitions and more and more teams involved. World Cups, Euros and the likes being expanded are going to put more pressure on top players and take longer to complete. Shaving a few weeks off a season will help them. Also as UEFA add more club competitions and make the existing ones also bigger we are likely to see more PL teams get European places. That's extra money and a bigger reason we need fewer domestic midweek games because teams are obligated to play in these if they qualify because of England's UEFA membership. The same with the expanded Club World Cup which is going to be a much more important and more taxing. Liverpool won the last one having played just 2 matches against Monterrey of Mexico and Flamengo so hardly tough games. The other teams taking part were Al-Hilal from Saudi Arabia, Espérance de Tunis from Tunisia,Hienghène Sport from New Calidonia (That hotbed of great football teams) and Al-Sadd from Qatar. There is no surprise that the last non-European team to win was Corthinians in 2012 and that in the 16 times its been played its only not been won by the Champions League winners on 4 occasions and on those 4 it was a Brazilian team

    The 2021 version will contain EIGHT clubs from UEFA alone, with 4 of those likely to be the last 4 Champions League winners, 6 from CONMEBOL. In total there are 24 teams to be involved in the first year and it will be held every 4 years with the talk it may even be expanded further so that every regions Champions league winners from those 4 years being involved and UEFA getting places for all 8 finalists and the 4 Europa League winners (And CONMEBOL also getting more places)

    Also the pre-season tournament benefits all the PL clubs as every club has to take part at least once every 5 years. And the extra two weeks of preseason also means more chance of a preseason tour to get players fitness up

    I would also disagree that the PL hasn't improved the English game. The facilities in the PL and the level of coaching is vastly superior. The problem the English game has is that the EFL hasn't kept up, to a point that many clubs that had Training facilities have sold them. When you couple that with the FA mandate to make the reserve league an u23 league which has made it unfit for purpose that's whats actually stalling so much talent progress. There is a reason why clubs are more eager to send players out to the Dutch or Belgium second tier because despite there being less money down there than in league 2 in England they actually have high-level facilities.

    I would also point out there is no evidence that the big 6 did anything to block the takeover of Newcastle. It didn't even get to the point of clubs having a say. The Premier League had concerns about the ownership as the consortium refused to answer and give assurances on the influence the Saudi State would have. We have already seen how City and PSG are being used to sports wash countries reputations and they are basically just a PR machine for that country with the owners willing to lie, cheat and bend every rule. And it's even worse with the Saudis as they have a state-controlled pirate channel broadcasting sport that BeIN owns the rights to the whole Arab region which has put the PL deal with BeIN in doubt and outside the UK the middle east is perhaps the most important area for broadcasting.

    Also what makes you think United have any more chance of falling out of the big 6 under the current setup than under the new setup? If they are on such a downward trend as you implying a smaller division puts them more at risk
     
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  20. XCIV_Bantam

    XCIV_Bantam Squad Player
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    all fair points. but changing how clubs vote to consolidate power to the big 6 is wrong. Also giving them power to veto a club being taken over is stupid as they are clearly biased in this. This pulls the ladder up MORE for clubs trying to stay in the PL regardless of making the league smaller. how far do these votes allow? Could Elon Musk fail to buy Newcastle, waits for them to get relegated then buys them in the championship? What happens then? This is such a large power grab.

    Currently all PL teams are treated equal. This changes that.

    I know the money would do the EFL some good, but when the EFL chairman used to be the CEO of the PL that must raise some eyebrows.
     

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