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Pay Per View Premier League Games

Discussion in 'General Football' started by JonButterfield, Oct 9, 2020.

  1. Frank Castle

    Frank Castle Captain
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    You can get a very decent, reliable VPN for about £2/month. Not really too complicated at all, especially if you're tech savvy enough to find an illegal stream.
     
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  2. Storck

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    there are a lot of non tech people using IPTV these days. Advertised on Facebook etc that someone installs for you. They wouldn’t know a VPN from BLM
     
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  3. Hoochy-Min

    Hoochy-Min Impact Sub

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    Yes I do. :kissing_heart:
     
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  4. Interested Bystander

    Interested Bystander Regular Starter
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    So charging £15 is a rip off, but stealing the stream is OK?
     
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  5. bantam65

    bantam65 Squad Player
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    Tech savvy?
    That rules me out then !! :@/
     
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  6. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    That's a complete myth. When Netflix was just £5 a month, Netflix originals would still dominate the piracy charts every month and by a long way. Most people who pirate something will never pay for content. If there is a legal way to watch something and they pirate no matter how much they justify it due to price most wouldn't pay even if it was just 10p. Football piracy exists for two reasons, the lack of legal ways to watch some matches and then because they are people who will never pay no matter the price.

    And a lot of people are going 'they should do their own streaming service for £10' but the problem is they would lose money. The low quality iFollow level product wouldn’t go, MUTV does better coverage of the u18's that iFollow provides but doing a Sky/BT level production is expensive. An hour of live sport at that quality costs around the same price as an average hour of scripted drama because of the number of cameras required, the number of staff to produce it live and to then send it back to hq live and then broadcast it out.

    Also with the current TV tv broadcasts bring in £508mill each month domestically alone at £10 you woild need over 50mill subscribers. There are only 27mill households in the U.K. so that’s impossible. Paid TV and SVOD have both found that 15mill households is where you start to hit saturation point so to cover the income from the current deals that’s £33 a month but footballs market cap is likely to be smaller than that so it would need to be even higher.

    And sure you could argue that they don’t need as much money but that’s catch 22, less money means less star players. That makes it a weaker product and people are less likely to buy it, and international deals will also fall. That means less money not just for the PL teams but it would see the EFL payments have to be cut which would impact clubs like yours as well
     
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  7. Hoochy-Min

    Hoochy-Min Impact Sub

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    Can't see a problem myself. Season ticket holders are getting refunded or haven't paid anyway so the £15 is less than their matchday price. They're not paying twice as some people have misunderstood it to mean.

    I guess that there is some disparity as the bigger clubs are on sky more often so they won't have to pay the match by match price if their club is one of the live broadcast games.
     
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  8. Bronco

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    I've heard Virgin are the worst, as you say get a VPN I believe some IPTV suppliers actually provide a VPN in their package if Virgin block you then turn on your VPN, or change your ISP provider.
     
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  9. Interested Bystander

    Interested Bystander Regular Starter
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    Exactly
     
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  10. SimonW

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    That wasn’t actually the PL. The broadcasters were still having to hand over the same amount they did from people buying a single match. Sky and some of the cable companies offered a package as a loss leader to encourage sports package subscriptions (which you needed to take the deal up). NTL at once point were charging about £30 a season

    Anyone running a Random VPN, especially one run by pirates is just asking for trouble. So many VPN's out there deploy malicious payloads or are gathering data on you thus not providing the protection they are supposed to be. If people are using a VPN they should make sure it’s a legit well respected one
     
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    #30 SimonW, Oct 11, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
  11. Frank Castle

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    I currently use Cyber Ghost which I've found to be one of the best out there and very cheap. I tend to sign up for 18 month deals then jump to a new one but I might just stick with this one very impressive.
     
  12. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    Cyberghost were OK although they do keep logs which means in the event of a court order they would have to hand over all the data on you. They were sold however a couple of years ago to the Israeli firm Kape who used to be called Crossrider. Crossrider have a history of deploying low level malicious software with their apps and also doing browser hijacks
     
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  13. Frank Castle

    Frank Castle Captain
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    Maybe i will jump ship when the deal runs out then, lol.
     
  14. WilsdenBantam

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    Premier League clubs likely to scrap pay-per-view model for second lockdown period
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54824860

    Was never going to last, as I said in my previous post there is so much football on all the time people will happily just skip a match or two, unlike boxing or MMA which are far rarer.
     
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  15. Dennis

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    But people don't appear to mind putting money into the pockets of organised criminals who are responsible for most dodgy streams. And others condone it if not encourage it. It's a strange world!
     
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  16. Interested Bystander

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    I admit to a vested interest but ripping off streams, software etc is just theft on a par with shoplifting, the difference as you rightly point out is money often goes to organised crime.
     
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  17. SimonW

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    Not really the same, hence why piracy is a civil case, not a criminal one. Shoplifting results in a store losing a product so they have actually lost something other than just a potential sale, piracy is a copy being made so the retailer has actually lost nothing tangible.

    And that's where there is a bit of a grey area with piracy. Most pirated content that's consumed the consumer would not have bought the item so you make £0 from them but if they couldn't pirate you would still make £0. In fact that piracy can be a major benefit. For example, if I was to put together a top 10 movie list on it you would most likely find Donnie Darko, Before Sunrise and 500 Days of Summer. 3 movies that I didn't see in the cinema (DD as it got a really limited release that didn't air at my local cinema, Before Sunrise as the trailer made it seem like a soppy romantic movie and 500 Days of summer a cliched Rom-Com). I only ended up seeing them after recommendations but I wasn't about to buy a DVD copy for something I really didn't think I would enjoy so I pirated them. I've since bought DD on DVD, the Directors Cut DVD, the Bluray and then Digital, Before Sunrise I've bought the DVD, Bluray and digital as well as going to the cinema to watch the sequels before Sunset and before midnight which I've also bought on multiple formats AND with 500 Days I've bought on multiple formats AND bought the soundtrack. Piracy has hence generated a lot of money from me for the movies that I wouldn't have.

    The problem is more when you get people who would buy it choose not to so as to save money. That's a smaller group but does actually seem to be rising as getting pirated content has got easier. Some of these PPV matches based on the average the PL released are selling less tickets than they would have sold if grounds were open despite being at least half the price if not more when really they should be selling more as travel distance and ground capacity isn't a restriction. So there are people who would normally have paid who are choosing not to but I highly doubt they aren't watching the match.
     
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  18. Dennis

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    Do I take it you condone piracy and copyright theft?

    Just to be clear, piracy of copyrighted material is a criminal act in the UK as are several other activities which encourage or promote piracy. Only recently, a couple of criminals who were selling Kodi boxes with software to access illegal streams were arrested by the police, convicted in court of a criminal act and imprisoned. It's the watching of illegal streams which is currently a civil and not criminal offence.

    What's your view on some of the scroats at VP who were sharing a single season ticket allowing them to gain access to watch the game at VP together without paying for it?
     
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  19. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    It's not so much that I condone it, but more that it’s no where near as clear as copyright holders make out. The movie industry for example claim it losses them $30bn a year but it makes the assumption that an act of piracy is automatically a lost sale which isn’t the case. If the person pirating wouldn’t have bought it then it’s a zero loss crime. And plenty of studies on music piracy actually showed that that those who pirated a lot spent more on music than those who didn’t and that year on year spending increased at a greater rate.

    Financially it’s just not the big loser that it’s made out to be because again most of these people would not buy the product and those who can sample it often buy it (obviously love sports streaming doesn’t really get this boost mind you) and at-least in Music, movies and TV a it’s actually seen a much better product being put out. In Music for example we were getting to the point where labels were looking to churn out albums as quickly as possible to a point you would get maybe 2 or 3 tracks that were good and would be the singles and the rest of the album was low quality filler. With piracy they can afford that less, an album full of filler won’t translate piracy into sales as it’s not worth the money.

    As I said the only issue is when those who would buy it turn to piracy. That has increased, the likes of a Netflix have much of the blame to take there. They were so eager to get a foothold that they priced themselves way too low and it’s caused people to devalue content and even if they would have bought it or an equivalent product previously for much more they can think it’s too much and pirate it.

    For example if I watch a pirated stream of West Ham vs Fulham tomorrow they aren’t losing anything. I wouldn’t have attended the match and certainly wouldn’t pay for it as I don’t have enough interest in it for that. however if
    @Interested Bystander@Interested Bystander pirates it then there is a bigger issue as he may have attended the match and as such is paying less for PPV so there is little reason he wouldn’t buy the PPV
     
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  20. Interested Bystander

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    I'll be paying for it using part of the ST refund which is credited after every missed home game. Even our lowest cost Adult ST @ £299 covers the cost.
    TBF if there more "ghost games" where we're away, I'd be happy to pay for them too
     
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    #40 Interested Bystander, Nov 6, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020

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