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LGB v LGBT

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Rogered Tart, Apr 25, 2022.

  1. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant

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    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10083467/Barrister-sues-Stonewall-London-chambers-charitys-Diversity-Champions-scheme.html

    Something I wouldn't have given the time of day years ago but now catches my curiosity. Funnily enough i couldn't find a link that directly reports on the case in the Guardian while searching Google, only seems to link to what some on here would call right wing media organisations. Not sure why, I guess I'm not clever enough to understand the narratives and agendas at play.
    My narrative? You're born with a *@?$ you're a male/man whatever you want to call it. A vagina? Yep, you're a woman/female. If you've got no bits it both bits then can be whatever you want you lucky people.
    Joking aside live however you want. I just hope Allison Bailey wins her case.
     
  2. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
    Admin Moderator Qatar 2022 Entrant P.L. 20/21 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant P.L. 18/19 Entrant

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    The whole trans issue is one that annoys me. Not because I have a problem with trans people but the militant far-left trans activists. The whole issue of trans people is a complex one, but this group with their slogans like 'Trans Women are Women' want to pretend it isn't.

    I mean for starters there isn't actually such a thing as a trans-person, it's a catch-all term for anyone with gender dysmorphia but there is a major difference between someone who has completed both chemical and surgical transitioning and someone who refuses to even chemically transition (which is the biggest growing subset of the trans community, especially on the trans-women side). Outside of certain situations, for example, sport where sports that allow trans-women to enter have the testosterone levels they have to get down to being five times the average woman's and more than double even women at the highest end of the scale, and that's before the benefits of male puberty gives them; you can give a fully transitioned trans-women most of the rights of women, I'm sure most women wouldn't have an issue sharing a gym locker room with someone who has fully transitioned but to share it with someone who is a man in every way but their own mind is different. And coupled with the trans-activists pushing for self-determination of gender meaning anyone can legally switch genders and get the rights that come with that no matter if they have been diagnosed with gender dysmorphia or have any intention of actually transitioning it makes it problematic and open for abuse.

    The strange thing about it as well is that these trans-activists usually use the 'Trans-women don't feel safe using the men's safe spaces' as a reason why they need access to women, because after all every man sees someone who says they are female and can't help but have the urge to rape them but they fail to see how women rightfully can feel unsafe with someone with the genitalia that allows them to rape them and perhaps still the hormonal impulses if they aren't chemically transitioning just because they say they are a woman. How exactly do they think that saying you are a woman suddenly changes a person from someone they would feel unsafe being around themselves to being harmless.

    The thing they forget with Equal rights is that Equal rights don't always mean the same right, as a man I don't have the same rights to access places that a woman has, If I enter a women's public toilet I can get arrested. However, I have equivalent rights because I have access to male safe spaces. So what is actually needed is a proper discussion where the balancing point is between giving trans people as many of the rights exact rights of the gender they identify as BUT which acknowledges that there are areas where all trans people can't be given that or areas where no trans people can be given that and instead, they need access to equivalent rights. For example maybe we need male, female and trans safe spaces where fully transitioned people can use the ones for the gender they identify as and all the other trans use the trans one. And in sport we maybe need 2 new categories to include both trans and intersex people, perhaps with some cues taken from Para sport. in para-sport, you will find people competing with different levels of disability and they are given a grading from 0 to 100%. If your disability is deemed to only have you operating at 90% efficiency then the clock only runs at 90% of the normal speed to account and you could do that to account for trans people at different stages of transition so its fairer. And sure there may not be enough people to justify a trans-man and trans-women group but that was the same with para-sport for a long time but because the opportunities are there it's attracted more people to the sport. If you don't prove trans categories its always going to hinder uptake
     
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  3. Fuzzy

    Fuzzy Impact Sub

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    I'd not really given the Trans rights issue much thought until I heard the consistently excellent Jon Ronson cover it as part of his excellent series Things Fell Apart and although he was focussing on the conflict arising from the issue rather than the rights or wrongs of any particular belief, he did give a broad brush outline of the background which I thought was really enlightening and helped me start to understand why so many people feel so strongly about it.

    If you've 30 min to spare, and even vaguely curious about the subject it's well worth a listen:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0012fs8
     

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