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"He Won't Change, He Is Too Stubborn" - Hughes Ponders Yet Another Change in Formation

Discussion in 'City Talk' started by JonButterfield, Feb 20, 2023.

  1. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
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    https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/sport/sportlatest/23331519.bradford-city-may-revert-previous-formation-barrow-defeat/

    “We clearly need to be brighter at the top end and Banksy gives us different things.

    “He’s got clear ability obviously in one v one situations and it might be that we look at that.

    “At the moment, if we don’t move the ball quickly enough we get bogged down in interplay in front of teams rather than getting in behind.

    “It’s something we need to look at and address.”

    ---

    Give your head a shake if you're pretending Hughes is too stubborn to change, or clueless, or talks gibberish.

    That's bang on the money, that.
     
  2. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    This was clear as day after 15 minutes on Saturday yet he chose to wait till about 60 minutes to bring Banks on. He's correct in his analysis but it happened because of the way he set the team up. He picked that midfield, he takes responsibility for 90 minutes of utter dross. I expect to see Banks starting against Doncaster.
     
  3. Gardscoigne

    Gardscoigne Squad Player

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    It’s bang on the money, but concerning it’s taken so long to recognise the problem!
     
  4. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
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    Yeah but that's being reactive when in his position shouldn't he be proactive .. ?
     
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  5. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
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    But probably drop Cook, just you watch ....
     
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  6. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player
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    He's not recognising the problem though in my view. I feel that everyone is forgetting that we changed from 4231 for exactly the same reasons he's now changing back to it.

    The system doesn't convince me it will improve the attacking output, if anything it just makes us more solid again.
     
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  7. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
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    The T&A article was very similar in tone to his post match interview although the detail was very different. In both he identified the underlying issue that we seem incapable of getting behind the oppo and creating more chances. That might have come as a surprise for Hughes but it's been obvious to many fans for a long time now. I trust that his latest thinking isn't simply a response to the uncalled for booing from certain quarters. Getting the show back on the road is more important than that.

    But to be blunt, in neither did he acknowledge his own responsibility in our performances, particularly at VP. It's Hughes' squad; his tactics; his team selection; his match preparation; his gameplan; his choice of when and where subs are used. There's nobody else to blame. Whilst mistakes during the gane might well be down to individual player's mistakes, the fundamental thrust of our performances is his responsibility. He isn't a bystander in all of this. He is the team manager and he is rightly judged on how his squad performs.

    We'll have to wait until the weekend to see how he responds to recent performances and whether his changes are sufficient to consolidate our position in the playoff lottery. (I gave up on an auto spot several weeks ago!)
     
  8. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
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    I think it's tough to accuse Hughes of being reactive.

    We just outplayed Tranmere, even though the 'boos' came under similar circumstances.

    The fact is, we did get behind the Tranmere back line, and Ridehalgh was the one that supplied the cross for the first goal from a nice 1-2 that left him in a great position.

    We simply didn't see that on Saturday, especially from Halliday at right back.

    Knocking it about at the back isn't the problem, as long as we're moving towards a situation where we actually threaten.

    But given how well (results wise) the midfield has been doing, it's a bit rich to expect Hughes to change it. What's the old adage? If it ain't broke...?

    And regardless of our own individual opinions, results simply weren't broke, even if the performances didn't seem to match the outcomes at times.

    What's important for me is that we are adaptable, we do make changes, we will take risks with formation and tactics - hopefully those going to Donny can go with a bit of hope that we see Banks return to the form he displayed earlier in the season, and swing in a cross/shot for the winner.
     
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  9. Kevin1954

    Kevin1954 Squad Player
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    I get totally what you are saying, but it’s horses for courses. The current system WORKS AWAY from VP as predominantly results away from home against the “ better” teams speak volumes for sure.

    I have said for weeks that I much prefer to see us away from the boo boys at VP. ( Chicken and egg I realise!)

    It works because teams have to come at us as opposed to putting 8-9 men in front of the ball aka, Barrow and Rochdale.

    So he changes the system at Donny and we get beat , because we are too open? Then what?

    Hence horses for courses….Expansive at VP , much less so away imho.
     
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  10. Jordan

    Jordan Impact Sub

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    Is it a good sign that Hughes is willing to change his tactic rather than follow the trend of the top managers these days? Or if we just slide back to 4231 and it's the exact same style of play that made him move from that tactic to the diamond, does it raise more questions in his grasp on this squads identity?

    Pep, Klopp and Arteta have said before and show it weekly that you don't change Plan A to Plan B anymore, you just try improve Plan A. It floods its way down the leagues, these days you dont see too often even if you watch a championship side on sky, if a team are losing 1-0 with 10 to go they dont drop a midfielder for a striker anymore, it's pretty much like for like positionally but the next player on might have a different dimension to his game. It made its way down to L2 in spells this season with Mansfield and Stockport getting some stick during their bad spells and not changing from a 5 at the back tactic, but they stuck with and now they are both on good runs.
     
  11. Fordy117

    Fordy117 Just call me Mr Flip-Flop!
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    We won’t get beat. Either way we have to start believing in ourselves. We have one of the leading goal scorers in the division and we are scared?

    What needs to happen is he needs to address that centre or midfield. He brought in Clayton as a DM which is fine but you then can’t move Smallwood to another position or alone Clayton. It doesn’t work in a creative way.

    Give East and Banks a run or games now. Let’s go for it.

    This league is so poor and we are struggling. Frankly it’s embarrassing!
     
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  12. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player
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    Did we really "outplay" Tranmere though?

    If you look back through the game we scored a deflected goal (although it was a good strike) and a header that wouldn't go in if Cook did that another 1000 times. Apart from that we never really looked like scoring again, just loads of possession without intent as we see week to week.

    Then you figure in the 3 balls Tranmere smashed right across the 6 yard box and on another day at least one results in a goal and we end up with another turgid 1 1 draw and a very, very different reaction to exactly the same performance.
     
  13. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
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    Definitely.

    I think you only have to look at reactions from Tranmere fans: not only did they lose 2-0, but they never had the ball or good control of the game.

    The left back was a good player with great pace and exactly what we needed when playing the diamond - but they still failed to achieve a shot on target. On another day, any result could be different.

    What I don't see is how we could have realistically changed that ahead of the Barrow game.
     
  14. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player
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    I couldn't disagree more if I'm honest and if that's the level of performance we're after then I'm struggling to see why people were surprised by the Barrow performance as they really weren't the chalk and cheese you're suggesting.
     
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  15. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
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    The point is, if we'd been on the Tranmere end of an away defeat where we saw none of the ball, a couple of crosses that nobody got on the end of would be scant consolation.

    We've just done a 'Tranmere' and not managed a single shot on target - there's no positives to take from that, whereas there were positives to take from the Tranmere game.

    It would be very unusual for a manager to look at a comfortable 2-0 win and say "we need to make urgent changes". The fact we couldn't recreate any of the chances we had against Tranmere is the real problem. The players were a lot less brave, IMO, and constantly took the easy ball - with the exception of Ridehalgh, IMO.
     
  16. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    We tend to react well away from home as out set up is primarily defensive what with effectively now three sitting midfielders and this gives a similar hard to beat element like Barrow had. But that mind set permeates out style at VP much to the detriment of the fans. And truth be told, for all our supposed investment in the squad and the recruitment of an apparently top level manager, do we actually look any better on a consistent basis than the majority of teams in league 2? I'd argue no to point where we could finish anywhere from 3rd to 15th. I just don't see the consistency in this team to not put in another performance like Saturday.
     
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  17. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    Personally I thought there was very little between the sides last Tuesday which is why Saturdays result didn't surprise me. This team and set up by its nature doesn't have much creativity.
     
  18. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player
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    That's the point though isn't it, we didn't create many chances against Tranmere so short of the deflected goal and a ridiculously bad goalkeeping error it was a very similar performance to the Barrow game.

    Can you remember any real saves the Tranmere keeper made or any glaring opportunities we missed? I can't.
     
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  19. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
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    Exactly. Away from VP, the opposition is usually looking for all three points on their home turf. At VP, it's not unusual for the oppo to set up more defensively and maybe settle for a point. That suggests to me that the same approach for us both home and away shouldn't be the default .. and yet it is. It makes us very predictable. I believe that helps other teams to better set up how they play.

    It's such a strange league this season. We only usually see another team once or possibly twice a season and form our judgement based on those one or two games. But over the season I get the impression that there isn't a great deal of difference between many of the teams. Even now with a third of season left, there are still 10 or 12 teams who with a decent run could could force their way into the playoffs. Could that be at our expense? Potentially yes. As we've seen with our recent performances and results, we can blow hot and cold from one week to the next. Like you, I don't see us exhibiting anything on a consistent basis which guarantees us finishing in a better position than a whole group of other teams. This is likely to go down to the wire for us.
     
  20. Jordan

    Jordan Impact Sub

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    Consistency in this league just doesn't exist this season at the top end apart from Orient. Stevenage have 1 win in 6, Northampton have 1 win in 6, Salford and us have 2 wins in 6. It will be like this until the end of the season, with teams having a rough 5 spell then will go unbeaten in 5 and it's going to be the luck of the shuffle and the final few fixtures.

    Looking at the table, the one thing I think that will hurt us more than anything is goals. Specifically goals from another source than Cook. Every team above us have scored in the mid 40s range, with Carlisle and Mansfield notching 49 at a joint league highest spot right now where as we have 37 and 16 of those go to Cook. The rest of the squad have found the net 20 times (+1 OG) in 30 games, that needs some serious change in the final third of the season. For anyone bothered about the numbers of who has what in terms of L2 goals -> Wright with 4, Banks with 3, then Oliver, Smallwood, Eisa, Young & Walker have 2, finishing with Chapman, Pereira & Derbyshire having 1 goal each.

    The 4231 may work with Walker now able to play 10 rather than thumbing in either Chapman or Angol into that slot as we had to when he was injured. Banks, Costelloe, Nevers, Periera and Eisa are more than enough wide options to cause a threat or be rotated out if not. Clayton, Gilly and Smallwood have a battle for 2 spots in the middle.
     

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