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City Youth Players ‘making’ it at Bradford City

Discussion in 'City Talk' started by Bigrod, Sep 11, 2023.

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  1. Bigrod

    Bigrod Captain
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    As I said at the beginning, very few coming through for City in the last 25 years. I get the nostalgia element, for players from the 20th Century but we are almost a quarter of the way into the 21st Century.
    I also understand that some under 16’s have been sold.
    However we have very few of the Under 19’s (the youth 16-19) who go onto make it.
    Is there any point having a number of young players, with coaching staff/facilities and all the cost, if it is the equivalent of them getting through the eye of a needle to make it.
    Could the funds be better spent elsewhere?
     
    #61 Bigrod, Sep 12, 2023
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  2. Birky Bantam

    Birky Bantam Impact Sub
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    The recent academy players sold are:
    • Darryl Ombang - Leeds, he signed a 2 year that is up this summer. He's currently 18 and the back up keeper for the U23s in PL2.
    • Sahil Bashir - Brighton. Signed for Brighton in 2022 and signed a 2 year pro deal this summer. Played 16 times for their u18s last season and in his last year as an U18 this season.
    • Victor Musa - Well thought of at Man Utd, only turned 17 this season and played 23 games for the U18s getting 6 in 19 last season. Got caps for both Spain u16s and England U16s. In the summer Athletic Bilbao
    • Alfie Bradshaw - signed for Forest this summer
    • Alvin Ayman & Max Ruddock - currently in the u17s at Wolves
     
    #62 Birky Bantam, Sep 12, 2023
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  3. SteveC

    SteveC Squad Player
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    I believe the decision to scrap the reserves league several seasons ago contributed greatly to the lack of youth prospects. Also many are moved on to big academies when they are U12 so you probably don't realise they were at Bradford at all if & when they finally "make it"
     
    #63 SteveC, Sep 12, 2023
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  4. Bigrod

    Bigrod Captain
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    So did they all leave City before they turned 16?

    Genuinely wish good luck to all of them.

    However the issue is ‘how many make it at City’? None of them will.

    If they all left before they were 16, then what is the point of having under 19 scholars?

    I get the history of people coming through last century, but in modern times and now, how many have made it at City?
     
    #64 Bigrod, Sep 12, 2023
  5. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player
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    He wasn't. We signed him at 17 for the first team squad and he went pretty much straight into the first XI.
     
    #65 NorthernMonkey, Sep 12, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2023
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  6. Birky Bantam

    Birky Bantam Impact Sub
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    They all left by the age of 16 at the latest. If we didn't have an under 19s team it mean we wouldn't get player in at all. Being able to sign players aged 14/15 to scholar contracts gives you extra protection as they as no longer part of the EPPP system so we can negotiate a proper fee. Jay Tinsdale was part of the u19 squad when signed by Sheffield United recently. Also from a 1st team point of view if we didn't have an effective academy then we wouldn't be able to have a club developed player in the 18 so we could only name 6 subs.
     
    #66 Birky Bantam, Sep 12, 2023
  7. Park bantam

    Park bantam Regular Starter
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    If the pathway ended at 16 then none of the players who have moved to bigger clubs would have signed for us. Which would have meant losing a profitable income stream.
     
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    #67 Park bantam, Sep 12, 2023
  8. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
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    I had another look at the club's accounts only recently and the more open approach to sharing the club's financial position with its fans is to be encouraged. It's not perfect but a huge improvement over the past three years.

    As an example, the cost of running the youth academy offset by the fees received from transfer/development fees is now provided. The detail is a bit sparse as you'd expect but it does show the academy is making money. A decent size Cat 3 Academy like ours typically costs between £500k and £600k each season. They're expensive for a lower league club. But over the last 3 years, the club has made a profit on its Academy of almost £400k which imo is a decent return. We are making money from being a selling club of the younger ones even though most 9f the others don't develop into the first team. I assume that the money at least is going into the playing budget and will continue in the future.
     
    #68 Dennis, Sep 12, 2023
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  9. DimitriPayet

    DimitriPayet Squad Player
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    People have poor memories here. Colback was decent that season, give him the credit. Of course, eventually he turned out to be mediocre but that one season he was decent and the comment on his first touch is a stretch.
     
    #69 DimitriPayet, Sep 12, 2023
  10. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
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    The approach to the provision of an academy is changing. The big clubs are continuing as was but others are now doing it slightly differently. They are placing less emphasis on their younger end and looking to recruit from the 16+ youth at other Academies. A few former PL clubs have even taken the huge step of declassifying their academy to Cat 4 (previously the lowest possible level but now called the Late Development Model) and to use the resources on their older so-called development groups, particularly the U19s and U23s. It feels like there is a bit of a shake up in the Academy world and we might well be benefiting at the moment.
     
    #70 Dennis, Sep 12, 2023
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  11. Loyalbantam

    Loyalbantam Squad Player
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    Whilst we are a league2/league1 club all we can expect is that our best young prospects will move on to bigger clubs in higher leagues and so long as we are benefiting financially for that and with the protection of future sell on fees then it’s worth continuing with the academy.
    Even if we were an established PL club, realistically how many of the youth team would make it into the starting first team? None is the answer because the better ones would be shipped off on loan to lower league clubs and then probably sold. Exactly as has happened with Scott Banks / Tyreik Wright

    how many players currently playing in the PL joined their clubs as a kid and made it all the way through to being a regular starter in the first team?
     
    #71 Loyalbantam, Sep 12, 2023
  12. Bigrod

    Bigrod Captain
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    That is really helpful. Agree that it is a decent return.

    The quandary is that group who are not sold, remain on the books from 16-19.

    I am really pleased that Pointon has shone so far, whether it is a brief burst or something with more longevity remains to be seen.

    I wonder if the club can help the other members on scholarships to maximise their development. Surely there must be others who can be nurtured and their ‘late’ potential unlocked.

    I would really like to see more home grown players, if their quality is sufficient, to ‘make the first team grade’.
     
    #72 Bigrod, Sep 12, 2023
  13. Jordan

    Jordan Impact Sub

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    The Premier League has at the minute 550 registered first team players and of those, there are currently 67 registered first team players in PL squads who came from their teams academy. Man United are listed highest with 8 in their first team setup. Luton, Burnley, Brentford and Bournemouth all bottom out the list with 1 each in their first squad squad.

    How "regular" they are in the first time is another time consuming matter.
     
    #73 Jordan, Sep 12, 2023
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  14. Bigrod

    Bigrod Captain
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    Agree he had some good moments. But your fourth word is very relevant. It is a distant memory, coming up 15 years. If you are a 21 year old adult City supporter, then you are unlikely to have any memory of Colbeck playing for City. He is now ‘history’.
     
    #74 Bigrod, Sep 12, 2023
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  15. Here's Johnny

    Here's Johnny Fringe Player

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    #75 Here's Johnny, Sep 12, 2023
  16. Park bantam

    Park bantam Regular Starter
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    The hope has to be if and when we move up the leagues we can hang on to one or two of them
     
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    #76 Park bantam, Sep 12, 2023
  17. TallinnBantam

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    Interesting thanks. Sadly I can't see any of those apart from Musa, making it. Ombang as a keeper is always going to struggle to get anything other than benchtime unless he gets a lucky break. Bashir is at a club with a great transfer policy and superb at finding unearthed gems, but he's going to be so far down the pecking order. Same with Bradshaw - he must have about one hundred other players at Forest in his position. Dunno about the two Wolves players, too young to tell. Musa is an interesting one, and I really hope we've got a lot of future funds coming our way from that sell on deal. Someone needs sacking if not.
     
    #77 TallinnBantam, Sep 12, 2023
  18. Chippy

    Chippy Impact Sub
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    Seem to remember part of the tomlinson deal also included a pre season friendly with man utd and was disappointing as they sent a team of youngsters like butt ,Scholes etc and possibly more of the class of 92
     
    #78 Chippy, Sep 12, 2023
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  19. Bigrod

    Bigrod Captain
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    Here you go!
     
    #79 Bigrod, Sep 12, 2023
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  20. Loyalbantam

    Loyalbantam Squad Player
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    PL squads are huge and it’s easy to accommodate young players in the squad who will never play or only ever play in the early rounds of the cups.
    So my point is even the PL academies rarely produce a young player that can play at the highest levels so what chance do we have and in any rare instance that we do have a real too young starlet, we’d have zero chance of keeping them here beyond 15/16 years old
     
    #80 Loyalbantam, Sep 12, 2023
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