World war 3....

Like the USA threatening CUBA with invasion and a nuclear strike when they decided as a sovereign state to allow Russian forces in the country? sauce for the goose?
We are faced with 2 nuclear powers who hate each other and trying to get advantage of each other, The USA wanted to put nuclear missiles in Ukraine under the guise of NATO and there was never a chance Russia would accept that

 

As I posted earlier he was still talking any Russian invasion down hours before if happened telling everyone they were over reacting, but even so it didn't need the sort of force the Russians have shown with help from Putins puppet Lukashenko.

 

What the bloody hell are your information sources trevor? The only reason Russia invaded Ukraine is because they can, because Ukraine is NOT already in NATO. Nukes can be fired from hundreds or even thousands of miles away, or from the sea or from the air. Membership of NATO is to guarantee military support if any square inch of its territory is attacked, not necessarily to install nuclear weapons on a country's territory.

This is why Sweden and Finland are now considering applying for membership of NATO. By your logic, does this mean that Sweden and Finland are now deserving of an invasion by Russia? Moldova and Georgia are fair game?

Russia wants to own Ukraine and re-constitute some vestige of the old USSR. Claims of de-nazification are ridiculous. Nazification started with some mad dictator invading an eastern European country to expand his empire over 80 years ago..

 

They have left it alone for 8 years but as soon as Zeneskyy proposed membership of NATO it has all kicked off, you think that coincidence? The reason the USSR wanted missiles in Cuba is the same as the USA want them in Ukraine, The nearer they are the less time to defend them especially battlefield ones,
Make no mistake I am against this invasion and the sight of a million plus refugees having to flee is heart breaking.
Interesting that after Russia passed a law saying fake or biased reporting is illegal the BBC have pulled out of Russia

 

Probably because Russian definition of fake or biased is anything that goes against Putin and his line

 

As have other Western news organisations, to go with independent Russian news organisations shutting down. Seeing as telling the truth -- it's an invasion followed by a war, Russian casualties are mounting, etc. -- can get you imprisoned for up to 15 years, it's no wonder these organisations are halting operations. The local reporters and staff need to be protected.

It's a very old script Russia's following in all their behaviour, from manufacturing pretexts for invasions, to aggrandisement of their successes, to denigration of their opponents, to lying just about every time they open their mouths, to calling their opponents Nazis, to presenting false narratives to their own people. We've seen it all before, from the 1920s onwards.

RCB

 

Zelensky has a knife's edge on which to walk, and so far he is doing it well. We are all being repeatedly thanked for our support, whether moral with the protests, or military, financial, or humanitarian, but we are also reminded always that he needs more of everything, which is absolutely true. As is his point that Putin won't stop with Ukraine, unless he is stopped. And despite the requests for a no-fly zone, which he himself must know is almost certain not to happen, he does also stress that they themselves will do the fighting, as long as they have the means: guns, ammo, planes.

Realpolitik. The boundaries have been made public and clear by both sides -- do not touch a NATO member, do not impose a no-fly zone or put NATO boots on the ground. When both sides are governed by rational people, it works, as much as that can be difficult to stomach. The heart says to send in the troops, but one of the points of realpolitik is just that emotions, morals, and the like are removed from decisions.

It does lead to some weird circumstances, though -- it's alright to send armaments to Ukraine but not people to use them, a naval blockade would be unacceptable, but an economic blockade is fine...

RCB

 

If, as we keep getting told, Putin was so worried about covid, it was probably in case it took him out meaning he wouldn’t get to see his life's work, put into action There’s no way this hasn’t been in planning for ages, he needed the whole Nato thing to carry out his plan. As Zonnebloem said, in some ways it’s a shame Ukraine aren’t in Nato.

 

Indeed. This is the one area where we can criticise the Ukrainians, or more precisely, their previous, Russia-friendly governments. What is happening now is exactly why the Baltics, and the Eastern-Bloc countries, were so determined to join the EU and NATO as soon as possible, despite considerable mistrust of both organisations amongst the people. Fortunately, the governments were able to get the memberships through, and over the years those who thought those moves were wrong have, in general, changed their minds and seen the benefits. I know this from first-hand experience.

RCB

 

Who knows? Several pages back he claimed that Ukraine have committed systematic mass killings of civilians in Donbass. This has been dismissed as a Russian-promoted myth by fact-checking organisation Newsguard. And also in this article:

https://theconversation.com/putins-claims-that-ukraine-is-committing-genocide-are-baseless-but-not-unprecedented-177511

When I Google 'genocide' or 'mass civilian killings' in Donbass the only report of this I get is from the Russian news agency, Tass, which is obviously not an unbiased source.

Trevor claimed that Newsguard are western biased (which may or may not be true) so I asked him to provide links to reputable news sites where he has gleaned this information about mass civilian deaths in Donbass. I've heard nothing.

 

DONBASS. YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND TOMORROW - Freedom Of Speech (fos-sa.org) Based South Africa
OSCE Remains Silent Despite Uncovering Of Ukraine’s Mass Killings In DonbassSouth Front
First of Over 200 Bodies Exhumed from Lugansk Mass Grave, One of Obama’s Atrocities | The Liberty
Beacon
OSCE remains silent despite uncovering of Ukraine’s mass killings in Donbass (infobrics.org)
How many lives has the war in Donbass taken? - The Citizen

Just a few of the independent reports from websites not yet deleted by the west. Most reports have been suppressed as not to be seen criticising Ukraine or support for Russia

 

If you consider those sources to be reliable and trustworthy, there really is no hope.

 

I am sure you are happy with the ones you choose to believe, But notice there are no rebuttal's of these reports who would soon complain or denigrate if not true but dare not. Often the truth is altered by those not reporting what is happening as much as what is reported like with state run media channels RT and the BBC who have both been unfairly banned in the west and Russia
If you are interested the history of the Donbass region there is a good article here
All you wanted to know about Ukraine’s Donbass region | Suffragio

 

Good news coming out of Russia several rallies around different cities in Russia against putin and the invasion of the Ukraine

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60640204

Thousands of people have been detained at anti-war protests across Russia on Sunday, rights groups and Russian authorities say if the Russian people revolt against this it will take some stopping, the Russian people know its wrong.

Some 1,700 people were detained in Moscow alone, the RIA news agency reported, citing the interior ministry.

The OVD-Info rights group says detainments took place in 49 cities.

 

The Liberty Bacon Beacon (TLB) is a fringe online news source that promotes vaccine hysteria,[1][2] chemtrail conspiracy theories,[1][3] the FEMA concentration camps conspiracy theory,[4] hysterical GMO woo,[5] the international Jewish conspiracy[6] and other far-right survivalist bullshit. Unsurprisingly, they embrace and promote all the wacky conspiracy theories associated with the worst of Trumpism. It has the Russian red star as a logo.

Infobrics is Russian. United States intelligence reports have identified two Russians, Denis V. Tyurin and Aleksandr G. Starunskiy, with ties to the G.R.U. and who make sure the messaging and disinformation drafted by the intelligence officials are pushed by InfoRos and on InfoBrics.org and OneWorld.Press.

trevor is a victim of disinformation.

 

Those people protesting in Russia are extremely brave. If arrested they risk a 15 year prison sentence. Kudos to them.

 

independent Reports? One of which is written by someone who fought during the fighting in the area in 2014 on the Russian side.

 

Conspiracy is currency.

 

Heartbreaking to see what's happening to the people of Ukraine to see a passage from the country being bombed when a ceasefire has been agreed is sickening. When do we have to say enough is enough?

I won't pretend to understand it all but reading the above anyone who thinks that our western politicians (particularly the Americans) are above spreading disinformation are misguided.

 

Hopefully the Russian people's involment will have
an effect on things going forward you can only lock so many protests up.