World war 3....

None of the above and far from it, you obviously don't understand the meaning of the word...

 

As much as I admire the bravery of the Ukrainians its time for them to face the inevitable and look to end this conflict. No one is coming to their aid and to carry on will see Putin flatten every city. I don't know what the future has in store but the face of Europe will change again, just like it has done so many times over the centuries. I'd expect Moldova to come into line next.

 

it's boring and nobody gives a shit. shoehorning it into a thread on the ukraine stuff is just grim

 

to the vast majority of regular people it doesn't!

 

They have to keep fighting in my opinion. it will be horrible but living under putin after resisting him so fiercely would not be far off as horrible as being invaded by them. I also think there is a solid chance of putin being toppled eventually if this continues

 

Interesting article addressing various possible end scenarios:

BBC News - Ukraine: How might the war end? Five scenarios
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60602936

 

He's gonna destroy them one by one. And no ones gonna topple him.
The only thing that worries him is the US and they ain't getting involved. All very sad.

 

The problem I envisage is if he doesn't get stopped now, he ain't stopping further down the line and he'll come for more than just moldova. Also, he knows the next time he wants something all he has to do is just shell people and they'll capitulate. To give in now would be a complete disaster and only embolden him to do this elsewhere, whereas if he cant get past Ukraine, he's not gonna go for anywhere else. I also think what this invasion is showing us, is that we have significantly over-estimated russian combat effectiveness and tactical/strategic thinking. If they were as scary as they get cracked up to be, they'd have kicked the ukrainians arses in short order but that could not be further from what has happened so far.

 

The trouble is for anybody who thinks the Russian military are weak is they have large stocks of nuclear and other very destructive weapons and at the moment they are being led by someone who seems unhinged. The best hope for Europe is there will be some sort of coup to unseat him

 

Watching TV tonight the Russian parliament are introducing a law that will incarcerate anyone for up to 15 years for any one spreading what the Russian government regard as anti Russian propaganda, already radio stations and media outlets have stopped broadcasting.

 

oh yeah i meant very much in the boots on the ground sense of effectiveness. The fact theyre running out of fuel and such shows an extremely poorly planned invasion based on poor quality intelligence. Captured soldiers saying they just thought they were on exercise and then got sent into combat shows to me, that the russians can be defeated in a physical conflict. people like that are never a match for people defending their homeland. Yes they have things like thermobaric bombs etc, but ultimately how does it pan out for ukraine if it does capitulate?

For me we have to start working on any potential assets in the Russian govt that can work towards getting him out and installing someone who isn't a nut case, as I'm sure there will be people of that mindset somewhere. I think there will be a high watermark point where a critical mass of people at all levels of russian society decide they've had enough of this lunatic and take steps to act. When that would be though I think is difficult to say, although I do think we're seeing the shoots of that sort of uprising beginning to occur.

 

People will still find ways, we're in an era where secure digital communication particularly has never been easier. Not only that, but he's literally ordering people to arrest children. That sort of stuff can only go on for so long before people have had enough. I am not saying for a second we are close to that moment, but the fact there has been protests at all shows that putins grip on this issue is maybe not as strong as he thinks it is.

 

you seem to get easily offended from things such as taking the knee etc. the definition seemed to fit you perfectly

 

You've described me almost exactly, save that for the time being I'd still keep Johnson over Starmer -- but one foot is over the line, and the other is on a banana peel. The former is an ass, the latter hasn't yet convinced me. There must be many of us who have to plug our noses and simply vote for the 'least worst.' What do you do when you are a social conservative (with some liberal leanings), an economic liberal (with some conservative leanings), and a labour relations/social safety net labourite (with some conservative and liberal leanings)? Bounce between Conservative and Labour depending on the year/leaders/main issues. I've yet to find anything suitable in the current lesser parties.

Agreed, they must keep fighting. Putin is intent on reliving the past; it would not surprise me at all to find out that names are being recorded, and that in any parts of the country that he controls or comes to control, people suddenly start disappearing -- those who had been soldiers, policemen, government officials... It is all depressingly familiar. Indeed I saw an account today from (I believe it was) Kherson, where a resident said the occupiers were questioning men on the streets as to who they would fight for if mobilised.

Good article; CNN had something similar. I'd say diplomatic (eventually) solution with a hopefully sooner rather than later ouster of Putin. I very much fear that Ukraine will have to concede the Crimea. But, that historically was Russian, at least every since they took it from the Turks! I also fear that they will have to concede the occupied areas of the Donbas. This I don't mind, as it will get a large amount of ethnic Russians out of the country.

That said, this solution leaves the unpleasant situation where the bully has in some senses won, having enlarged his territory at the expense of a sovereign nation. There is also the problem of the Russian troops being withdrawn from all other parts of Ukraine. I just don't see the ideal solution happening, namely the complete withdrawal of all Russian troops and the restoration of Ukrainian control over the Crimea and all of the Donbas.

An ouster, with a death, will be the best end result. The discontent runs deep in Russian society, both amongst the elites who are frozen out of power, and the people, who get shat on from above. If enough of the oligarchs who have been supporting him see their wealth and possessions disappearing, they may start getting ideas. I like a proposal the US House is going to consider -- take the assets that are now being confiscated and use the proceeds to support Ukraine. That would be just.

RCB

 

This article, as well as being a useful summary of what led us to this situation, has some good points at the end about how to ultimately get rid of Putin:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/03/vladimir-putin-ukraine-war-chechnya

 

There were protests in Belarus but Lukashenko suppressed it in a similar way to Putin, if they don't tow the party line and go along with government they are locked up.

 

Indeed another good article. I hadn't thought much of one point of his before, but I think he is right to stress that it is not just the oligarchs we need to go after, but the next level down as well.

RCB

 

A good article that shows that shows despite a spending military budget of £750million, if you aren't of financial use to the US or the enemy then they ain't getting involved. Looks like Ukraine left it too late to join the comfort blanket of the EU and Nato.

 

Snowflake/Wokery IS taking the knee not objecting to it...
Again, you obviously don't understand the meaning of the gesture, but you will, at some stage in your life hopefully...

 

It's hilarious watching your persistent whingeing about taking the knee and your obsessive complaints about wokery (ie anything modern and compassionate that you don't like) and how much it then really riles you when people call you a snowflake because of your constant whining.

@Storck is perfectly well aware of what snowflake means. The term was coined by right wing culture warriors to charicature and denigrate liberal people who object to repressive or discriminatory aspects of the status quo - suggesting that they aren't resilient, are easily offended and can't take criticism. But it's just as aptly turned against those who never shut up whining about the people they like to call snowflakes.

You've often said that I don't have a sense of humour. I'm currently laughing my arse off at your obvious frustration and discomfort at having the word snowflake so accurately thrown back at you.