World war 3....

Yeah, so Biden's foreign policies are sh1t hot aren't they..?
Keep yer red flag flying mate..

 

Along with Hunter Bidens ties with dodgy money from his dealings in the Ukraine, Biden and Trump like most ambitious men greedy for power are the same underneath the PR front for the media and gullible

 

Notice the west has now started to ban the Russian TV channel RT which is a really poor decision restricting the freedom to choose who we watch and listen to, what do they fear from another viewpoint?, While it is state run and has a Russian bias most understand that and it is a disgrace that the west is only allowing viewers to watch the western media ( just as biased in some ways ) Notice the freedom loving EU was at the head of the queue to ban it

 

I brought up Corbyn to show that my angst about the 'poodle' view wasn't politically one sided. I dislike it when it's said about Trump just as much as I dislike it when it's said about Corbyn despite their polar opposition. I view it as childish, dismissive and igorent of the facts that sometimes people can agree with others and also disagree with the same people at a different time.

In terms of NATO it was both. He clearly said that if the allies weren't going to live up to their commitments that the force was obsolete. He was increasing spending on defense voluntarily - it's a popular policy amongst his support after all - so I don't think he was trying to cut it when speaking about NATO.

The thing is, you can think Putin is "great" or "smart" or "admirable" or whatever and still strongly believe in the power of deterrence. You don't actually have to hate an individual to be strong against them, it's not a marvel movie where one side is 100% bad and the other is 100% good.

 

Who said anything about Biden's foreign policy? I certainly didn't. Whatever the state of Biden's administration or its policies doesn't alter the fact that Trump is Putin's poodle and is still praising him, even now.

 

It's a ridiculous decision and ironically exactly the sort of thing that Russia would do. Hilariously it's been done on the same day that the BBC have an article about "what propaganda is on Russian TV"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60571737

So we can be told what is being shown on Russian news but we can't actually see it for ourselves - isn't that literally what Russian media do to their population?

 

TBH, I think both Putin and Trump actually are extremely close to 100% bad. That's my opinion, and the fact that you disagree doesn't make either of us right or wrong.

I don't use the term Putin's poodle as a childish slur. I believe it's correct. Trump would sacrifice Europe in a breath to save his own skin. That's what sociopaths do - throw anyone and anything to the lions to protect themselves. He was prepared to publicly dismiss his own country's intelligence information rather than upset Putin - that's how low he was prepared to go.

Trump worships Putin as the strong dictator he would like to be himself. But he also knows that Putin has huge amounts of dirt on him. I firmly and sincerely believe that there are no depths to which Trump isn't prepared to sink to save his own skin. I wouldn't trust him an inch to stand up to Putin.

 

And I think that's sometimes why you get into a slightly warped position. You have an almost binary position on these personalities which dismisses things they do that don't fit the viewpoint and focus on the bits that fit the pre-conceived narrative. I mean, even putting Trump and Putin in the same bracket at this point is bordering on ludicrous.

However, I also think that Trump would sacrifice Europe in a breath for his own gains. But as you say that's down to his own personality flaws not because he's being worked by puppet-master Putin, he didn't need any assistance to look after his own interests.

The last paragraph is where it veers into soap opera. All this stuff about one world leader having dirt on another world leader, blah, blah, blah, is just tittle tattle to me. It's where we go from a serious discussion into conjecture, innuendo and gossip and the same is once again as true of Trump as it is of Corbyn. I have no interest in it either way.

 

That's the most ridiculous thing you've said since the last most ridiculous thing you said...
Most folk in this country would take Trump over Johnson given the chance..

 

Most of the people you know. Then there's the sensible majority who live in the real world.

You really must stop kidding yourself that your extreme socially conservative views represent the views of most people in this country. They really don't.

And anyway, comparing one terrible leader with an even worse one isn't a very good look for the right, is it?

 

Whatever comrade....

 

I notice that the cheering EU and the western media have ignored the plight of the Donbass region of the Ukraine for years where the Russian speaking population are systematically been wiped out by the Ukrainian army despite a pledge to stop it by Zelenskyy
In 8 years the civilian population has endured relentless daily attacks including shelling of schools, nurseries and hospitals, over 4000 civilians killed and hundreds of children killed while the western media turns a blind eye, Even the discovery of a mass grave of between 4/500 civilians ignored and not reported by the western media despite the work of the UN human rights working on identifying the bodies

 

Comrade? WTF?
I've never called anyone comrade in my life, nor been called it by anyone, except you.
You really must stop thinking that anyone who has mildly left of centre views is the same as being a Communist or Trotskyite. I'm about as far left as Roy Hattersley or Denis Healey. Shame you don't understand nuance.

 

And yet again you bring up Corbyn, as though that has some relevance to me.

Trump wasn't a world leader when he was grovelling to Russia for loans to save his company. He did need assistance to look after his own interests and he found a willing donor in Putin. Trump owes Putin, as Putin well knows. The fact that Trump later became a world leader is an indictment of the US political system, but it doesn't alter the fact that Trump is up to his neck in dodgy foreign dealings and would so whatever it takes to prevent them becoming fully public.

Putting Trump and Putin in the same bracket is not ridiculous. Trump is the very archetype of a narcissistic sociopath, just like Putin. Everything he does is filtered through the lens of what will be good for his own ego, image and business interests. His 'patriotism' is purely a means to an end. The main difference between the two is that (although it is creaking at the edges and the Republicans are doing their best to destroy it from within) Trump is operating in a far more robust and mature democratic system whose checks and balances, so far, have prevented him from pursuing the worst of his own agenda. But be in no doubt, Trump, given free reign, would be a despotic dictator in a heartbeat. That's not just my view, it's widely held by people who know him, not just including members of his own family but also Republicans who've worked for him in the White House.

 

And once again I'm not bringing up Corbyn specifically to you. As explained previously it's to make clear that my dislike for those aspects of our society doesn't come from a place of political polerisation. I state it simply because without that caveat I can get myself caught up in people viewing my dislike of those gossipy aspects through the lens of "pro-Trump" or "anti-left" or whatever when that is exactly the sort of binary stance I'm against.

And there's another issue right there. You view your opinions - and the others of people of a like mind - as equal to the facts. Taking a world leader who is currently starting an invasion of another country and equating him as "both extremely close to being 100% bad" as someone who isn't but who "could have done" is myopic in the extreme. They may have the same personality tendencies and willingness to play the game to their own rules and to their own benefit but "equally bad" is a leap of faith given the circumstances.

 

i wouldn’t waste your time.

Less and less can there be nuance in this world reinforcing the idea that there can only be binary opinions. Let alone dialogue or the acceptance that sometimes you yourself might be wrong, or indeed that seemingly disparate views can still have some common ground. It’s probably rare that any one view has a monopoly on what is ‘right’.

FWIW, it’s awful seeing what is happening. My heart says the allies should do something militarily to help, by my head says no. We are in a poor position, nuclear arms at our disposal is helping us not one iota, what a mess and it kind of makes a mockery of the influence having them can have. Putin knows he can just carry on, with his threats and also he knows there is still a significant reliance on them by the west for energy supplies. I honestly don’t know, I try to put myself in the position of a family, with children, in somewhere like Kharkiv and can’t imagine it. I am sure they understand the ramifications of help coming from Nato, but that must be horrific to know that there it is highly likely it won’t materialise.

 

Sorry, I botched the quote function so my reply appears in the quotation box and I can't work out how to alter that.

 

I wouldn't say it's coincidence. The point I was making led me towards making that caveat and I didn't even think about who I was actually replying to. I've explained it twice though now. Would you like me to run it through for a third?

To be fair the "equally bad" was meant as a paraphrase but if they are both close to being 100% bad it at least puts them very, very close to equitable.

Where have I failed to call out people being wrong? I don't think Trump was a good president and certainly don't think he's a good person - if we're ranking 'badness' though he's clearly a million miles away from Putin. That wasn't the point though, I don't think Trump was "Putin's puppet", I think his criticisms of some of the the NATO partners for failure to prioritise defense and become reliant on Russian energy were both correct and also a prime example of being anti-Russia. No doubt that was borne out of self interest rather than anything to do with the greater good but it can't be ignored because there's a narrative that needs to be proven.

The Trump thing is largely unimportant at the moment though. The more important thing is trying to become stronger against Russia at some point and characterising Putin as being some sort of great puppet master who has senior politicians all over the world by the balls is counterproductive.

 

I'm suprised the sanctions that are being put on Russia are not also applied to Belarus for supporting Russia, the Belarus people tried to get the resent election overturned they are far from happy with Alexander Lukashenko may be a people's uprising there.

 

You are wrong. Most people have socially conservative views, hence why the Conservatives are in government, and have been for over a decade.

It's infact most of the people you know, with respect, that probably share similar views to yourself, but you are in the minority.

People socialise and interact, naturally, with people whom they share similar viewpoints and interests with.

But if we look at the facts, @Tony Wilkinson is in the majority, not yourself.