Match Thread Exeter (A) Tue 16/11/2021 & Tue 30/11/2021 19:45

I do thi

I think this is the only thing that might save you and you end up getting a fine instead. We might argue that we only tried to bring on a 6th after seeing that you had already made 6 subs though.
What I think has happened, is that the 4th official has lost count of your subs and then realised his mistake once we effectively alerted him to it by trying to make a 6th sub ourselves. It would've been best that we had been allowed to make a 6th sub at the time - in which case I think the FA would've just issued minor fines to both clubs.

Whatever happens, there is definitely at least a fine heading Exeter's way and I think you'll be lucky to avoid getting kicked out

 

This i think is hersay, its not up to the officials to stop a player coming on the pitch.

 

I refer you back to my previous point:

"The only precedent I can find is The Devon FA advising our Development Team last year that they were able to play a first team player before the match and then realising after the match that they couldn't. The advice came from the Devon FA, the **** up was by the Devon FA so they couldn't kick the girls out but made them replay the tie again. As we were told on numerous occasions by the match officials we could use a sixth sub, and they are FA representatives so it in theory did come from the FA."

 

Our chairman is adamant we asked on multiple occasions if we could make a sixth sub and were continually told we could, along with the fact they provided us with more than 5 substitution cards to hand in to the fourth official to make them..

 

I'm sure this man will fight your corner....

 

An interesting thread that relates to 'a substitution' can be carried over into extra time, not plural. Bradford made two in extra time, but then again so did Stockport, Wigan & Stevenage. I wonder if they're all being investigated, too?

 

You will have been given 6 cards because you are allowed to make a 6th sub for a concussion. There was no concussion, but it looks as though the 4th official mistaken thought one of your subs was for that reason.
I do agree that the blame really is on the 4th official rather than Exeter - I don't think you deliberately tried to break the rules at all and if you do get kicked out have fair reason to feel aggrieved about the whole situation.
That said, I'm not sure if the FA will see it the same way.

 

I think what's clear is that the rules are extremely confusing, changing constantly and different for different competitions. It should just go back to three and that's that, across the board.

 

You really are grasping at straws to blame others for a mistake by Exeter.

YOU CAN MAKE 5 SUBS, IF YOU DID NOT MAKE THE SUBS IN THE GAME YOU CAN MAKE THEM DURING EXTRA TIME, IF YOU DIDN'T USE YOUR 3 ALLOCATED STOPAGES BEFORE FULL TIME THEY ARE CARRIED THROUGH TO EXTRA TIME WITH ONE ADDITIONAL CHANCE TAKEN.

You are arguing a breach of rules you don't even understand.

Here are the rules, they are clear. Please stop clutching at straws.

 

@ECFC regards to the comment your chairman made theres quite a few mis truths in there and seems to be sour grapes about it

“However, it would appear, having been in contact with the FA, that there was a lack of clarity about how and when, and how many, substitutions could be made.

“We are preparing a submission for the FA and it is quite clear that there is no clarity about a set of rules which have changed before, during, and after Covid – and across different competitions.

after a very quick google I have myself found the rules here, https://www.thefa.com/-/media/thefacom-new/files/competitions/2021-22/emirates-fa-cup/rules-of-the-fa-challenge-cup-2021-22.ashx

specifically section 15, C, ii;

In the Competition Proper, a maximum of nine substitutes may be nominated. Subject to the below a Club may at its discretion use five of those substitute players at any time in a match (including during any period of extra time). Each team is only permitted a maximum of three opportunities to make substitutions during normal time in the Match (excluding half time). If the Match proceeds to extra time, each Club will be permitted to carry over any unused substitution opportunities into extra time and will be permitted an additional (fourth) opportunity to make a substitution (excluding (i) the break between full time and extra time and (ii) at half time of extra time). A substitution can only be made when play is stopped for any reason and the Referee has given permission. Prior to the substitution being made the Club must identify to the Match Officials the number of the player out and the player in, in accordance with the Official Team Sheet.

“We will, of course, abide by the rules, but despite on numerous occasions seeking clarity with the fourth official, whose job it is, the clarity that needed to be there was quite obviously not forthcoming.

“The fourth official’s main job is to manage the substitutions and quite obviously there were issues with the process from both sides and both teams on this issue.”

its not the responsibility of the fourth official to know the rules its up to the team itself. ignorance is not a valid defence.

"The only precedent I can find is The Devon FA advising our Development Team last year that they were able to play a first team player before the match and then realising after the match that they couldn't. The advice came from the Devon FA, the **** up was by the Devon FA so they couldn't kick the girls out but made them replay the tie again. As we were told on numerous occasions by the match officials we could use a sixth sub, and they are FA representatives so it in theory did come from the FA."

so if that's the case why were you being forced to replay the game? Like I said before its up to the teams to seek information on rules which all things considered is very easy to find.

 

Your entire posts contradicts itself. You're trying to argue "ignorance isn't a form of defence" - If you are explicitly told by an FA representative that you can make 6 subs then that is their fault. The same information evidently passed to Bradford, who also tried to make a 6th sub before being prevented from doing so. You then say it is not for the officials to prevent rule breaking but to action it when that is the case. A lot of misinformation there, I'm afraid. Otherwise why ensure a player is ten yards away from a free kick? Why not just let it be taken then book the player for not retreating? Why tell a goal keeper he has to remain on his line for a penalty? Why give players instructions at a drop ball? Why tell a player to move back if he's gained too many yards at a throw in? There's a million examples I could give of officials giving instructions throughout a game, why not this time?

They are there ensure the game is played by the rules, to maintain rules and then punish any breaches. Part of maintaining the rules is making sure the correct amount of players are on the pitch and the correct amount of substitutions are made. All substitutions are duly noted by the officials. That means all four of them failed to maintain the rules. We are culpable but they are just culpable.
As to whether we should go through or not, I'd point you in the direction of what happens when the officials screw up.......... the final result always stands regardless of how their error may have effected the result. If they fail to send a player off who has received two yellow cards and he stays on to help his team win the result stands. If they give a goal when it should have been disallowed the result stands.
The other thing I'd point you towards is that when it comes to retrospective action, if the referee has seen the incident and made a decision then the FA wont change it. For example, if the ref sees a dangerous challenge and books the player the FA wont retrospectively upgrade the decision because the referee was in control of the situation. In our case, he was there, he was in control of the situation and he allowed our sixth substitution.

 

Substitution opportunities is plural you should've kept reading lol

 

We are not talking about substitution opportunities. We are talking about using an unused substitution. You're referring to opportunities.

 

Fair enough - The rules are clearly not clear though and they don't read as they are meant to.

 

Maybe the fourth official was concussed

 

Cambridge vs Exeter, confirmed?

 

It says you can carry over any unused substitution opportunities that could be 1 2 or 3 so clearly it is plural

That is the only clear bit lol

 

If the officials wouldn't let us make a 6th sub, I find it hard to believe that they told you numerous times (even just minutes before when you made your 6th sub) that you were allowed to.
There is precedent of teams being kicked out of cups too. It happened to us a few years ago in the league cup (we were reinstated on appeal when it was determined that we hadn't actually done anything wrong).

I do have some sympathy with the situation Exeter are in as I highly doubt you deliberated made an illegal substitution, but as I said before, I think you'll be lucky if you get off with just a fine

 

The weight of the punishment will ultimately come down to whether the FA believe Exeter gained an advantage from the additional sub whilst the game was balanced at 0-0.
I’d say they did so it’s likely the whole game or at least the ET period will be replayed.
I’d suggest it just goes to a penalty shoot out. Send goalkeepers to opposing clubs training ground and carry out the shootout live via Zoom