Brexit

Look I am not in a fit state at the moment, I have just lost my adorable cat, and i do want to pick you up on a number of facts you state, maybe later in the week.

 

Sympathies Mrs O , maybe give this board a rest for a day or 2.....

 

Condolences

 

The SNP's mandate is independence, pure and simple. If Scotland does gain independence (hopefully as part of the EU) then the future government should be open to changing the whole system to a fairer, more representative model. Traditional Labour Tory, LibDem parties could be replaced up here.

 

What is now irrefutable is that there are only two positions (error three if you count Labours idea )
1 Leave
2.Remain
3 (Labour) negotiate to Leave with deal. Come back and repeat Referendum/GE and Campaign against their deal to Remain.

Discounting the absolute nutcase No 3 nonsense. Then its either Leave or Remain.
Theres one thing that will scupper the Remain Alliance and they'll know it and right the will ! On October 19th ! ..There is a cunning plan .....

 

Just to clarify, Labour’s position is not yet clear. What you heard was Emily Thornberry inarticulately expressing that Labour should seek to agree a new deal that would be put to a second referendum, yet her personal position was to remain within the EU. I mean, it’s not how I would have chosen to express such a position.

I don’t personally think that there’s any way that we simply opt for straight revocation without a second referendum. The Lib Dem’s might, or might not, campaign on that premise, but they aren’t winning a majority any time soon. There’s either referendum, deal, or no deal. And the election result will determine this pretty much in full.

We’ll probably only find out more on each party’s position at party conference season, since this’ll be where party motions will be brought and manifestos formulated.

 

My condolences @Onside, Its hard when a loved pet goes, My best sympathies, Trevor

 

Well here's a bit of promising news:
"EU will refuse delay in current circumstances, France warns "
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-news-latest-eu-will-refuse-delay-in-current-circumstances-france-says-a4231506.html
Jean-Yves Le Drian said on Sunday that as things stand, a delay beyond the October 31 deadline would not be granted.
Asked if a Brexit delay was possible, the French minister told Europe 1 radio not under the current conditions
"We are not going to do [extend] this every three months," he added. "The British must tell us what they want."
He described the current situation as "very worrying".

 

He wasn't lying. He's always been a Brexiteer. That's why he did the square root of knack all to support the Remain campaign and, if rumours are correct, members of his close entourage were actively working behind the scenes to hinder it.
Probably 90% of Labour members are Remainers. Despite this Labour still hasn't got policy to support Remain and continues to fence-sit? Why? Because Corbyn and his senior allies still want us to leave the EU. They don't want the kind of Brexit that you want, but they still want to leave. They want a Norway+ type arrangement whereby we leave the political element but remain in the single market and customs union, which would necessarily involve retaining free movement of labour to get such a deal. Corbyn opposed May's deal because her red lines prevented such an option. But he still wants out, even though he's at odds with most of his membership.

 

It will be interesting to see if the Labour conference agrees on their next manifesto or not. Technically the next election isn’t due for a few years so they might not even though it is obvious it will happen within the next 12 months. If they don’t it is down to the leader, JC, to set it if an election is called

 

They won't keep extending it. But they will extend it this time because they know that a general election will follow, which may change our negotiating position. They'd be mad not to do that and I'm sure that Merkel will talk them into it. But if an Autumn GE doesn't produce a majority government with a clear way forward then I doubt they'd extend it again. They're as sick of it as we are.

 

More chance of a flock of pigs flying over Westminster.
The idea that the EU would change the backstop in response to a No Deal threat is just unicorn thinking. The EU doesn't want a No Deal Brexit, but it wants a massive open back door into its market far less. It was never going to happen and Johnson knew that perfectly well, which is why he has come up with no serious proposals and hasn't even put together a negotiating team. His talk of wanting a deal is just window dressing. He wants No Deal but wants to blame it on the EU and the rebel Tory MPs.
Johnson is turning the Tory Party into a far right sect. The attitudes of most of the current cabinet are frightening. If that lot get a majority in the forthcoming election we are in for dark days that will make Thatcher look like a kindly aunt. It's bizarre that so many ordinary people support them when they are going to make their lives a misery given half a chance.

 

Next 12 months! There be an election by early December at the latest. Regardless of the Brexit shenanigans, Johnson now has no majority and couldn't carry a Queen's Speech. If he lost a vote of no confidence it's very unlike that Corbyn could get support from the other parties to form a government. So an Autumn election is pretty much inevitable as the only way to break the impasse.

 

He is now thats my point always been anti EU now he's pro.....liar.

 

Well never know as that privilege has been taken away from his negotiating position.

 

The only 'negotiating' position we have is 'surrender'.....

 

Nothing more certain than a General Election when Corbyn has the balls to accept it (ye we know they don't trust Johnson) the EU don't now what that result might be nor do we, but I'd suggest if Farage's offer is accepted the remainers are on a doggy wicket.
Amen to that.

 

He's not pro, though.
The most he has said is that any deal should be confirmed by another referendum. The vast bulk of the LP membership is pro Remain and wants an unambiguous policy saying so, but Corbyn continues to hold out against that.
His plan is to stop No Deal, win a General Election, change May's red lines and then renegotiate a soft Brexit deal with the EU. He's a Brexiteer - always has been and always will be. He doesn't want a No Deal Brexit, because he thinks it would be economically disastrous for us, but he wants to be out of the political aspects of the EU and also thinks that staying in would stop him doing some of the economic measures he wants to do.

 

He doesn't have a negotiating position and never did. Adopting a position that you know from the outset is doomed to failure is not a negotiating position. It's either a monumental folly or, as in Johnson's case, a load of smoke and mirrors.

 

We don't have a negotiating position and never did. May's moronic red lines saw to that.
Leaving a club and demanding all the benefits of membership without following the rules or paying the subs isn't a negotiating position. It's like a three year old child stamping it's foot and scweaming until it's sick. It's pathetic and was all totally predictable.