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Discussion in 'City Talk' started by Ricky, Apr 28, 2018.

  1. banbrotam

    banbrotam Impact Sub

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    They had budgets, more or less of at least £8M

    Why anyone would think that we can compete with clubs that have spend most of their last 11 years in The Championship, when we've spend most of it in L2, I never understand

    But your post sums up the problem. We simply have ideas way above reality and then moan when the owners won't play ball

    However, we can still compete as thankfully very few have budgets like the above and then it comes down to how effective the manager is
     
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  2. Tolly856

    Tolly856 Squad Player

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    Your assessment sums it up for me. 120k wasted on Poleon and to make it worse we paid 200k for someone who can't even get in ahead of him. Reeves hasn't disgraced his fee but there are players who are just as good available for free. Then you've got to factor in that we also paid fees for Bruenker and Hanson. Wyke has been a success but overall our spending strategy has been abysmal. As for your Agard example, I don't know why you need to justify our poor spending by going from one extreme to another. I.e wasting money on transfer fees to wasting money on wages. A middle ground does exist and we need to find it if we want to succeed.
     
  3. bantam2708

    bantam2708 Squad Player
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    I used to be of your thinking i.e. we shouldn't be competing with teams coming down from the championship etc.

    But then it dawned on me. If we can't compete with those sides in league 1, what chance have we got if we got promoted, where they all (except 4 or 5) have budgets of 10M+
     
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  4. banbrotam

    banbrotam Impact Sub

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    I don't see these transfers been significantly more unsuccessful, as a proportion, than any other club. One success, two 'juries out' and one failure - isn't great, but neither is it far from the norm.

    Wyke was great and Poleon - well that was indeed a disaster

    I doubt you'll get the equivalent of Reeves on a free or a player that might eventually have a better sell on value

    Be interesting to see what the situation will be for Guy. I'd be surprised if he doesn't command a fee

    McCartan will probably eventually have to move on and hence would be a failure

    If I'm scoring them for marks out of 10 - where 10 is 'success' then Wyke is 9, Reeves, 6, McCartan 3 and Poleon 1
     
  5. Onside

    Onside Squad Player
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    Yes but @Dennis@Dennis said he would have anticipated this scenario, and protected himself from being plunged into a weak position. Not sure how, but he is not daft!
     
  6. banbrotam

    banbrotam Impact Sub

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    I haven't said we can't compete. Shrewsbury have shown what can be done, but ultimately if you're competing with £10K per week salaries, we can't compete with that so have to show another way

    I actually think we were very competitive up to the end of November but fell down with lack of strength in depth and didn't have enough financial clout to do something about it in January. But that's the tale for usually 22 of the 24 clubs in this division

    Remember, I'm quite optimistic about the future as I think all the new signings apart from Poleon can get better next season and yes there are some gems around. But this is why you need someone some wise like Grayson to find these
     
  7. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    Your summary only works if you count McCarten as a "jury's out" however by anybody's standards £200k on a 3/10 player is a failure.

    You've therefore got 1 success, 2 failures and one middle of the road. For £600k that's not exactly an endorsement.
     
    #267 Aaron Baker, Apr 29, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2018
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  8. Tolly856

    Tolly856 Squad Player

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    There's bad signings then there paying ridiculous sums for poor signings. We've done the latter.
    Of course you can. There are plenty of excellent players who are available for free every season. If you couldn't get better on a free than why was no one willing to pay for than a measly 150k for him and why were Wimbledon willing to get rid of him for such a low price?
     
  9. Petrov

    Petrov Squad Player

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    Ah, but some clubs have to spend 600k or more just to get one success. We've got two failures and a middle of the road thrown in for that amount as well so don't try to tell me we don't get value for money!
     
  10. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    Julian and Mark had voting shares.

    Prof Rhodes didn’t
     
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  11. Mike Hunt

    Mike Hunt Impact Sub

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    Rupp isn’t a stautory director of any of the three BC related businesses so it suggests Rahic is his man representing his interests.

    The Football Club and holding company are registered in England and Wales so German rules wouldn’t apply. Assuming there are no agreements that one party won’t seek to sell without the agreement of the other, or without giving the other party the opportunity of first refusal, then Rupp could in theory sell leaving Rahic in place. New owners with a majority on the board could in theory tell Rahic to jog on and keep his nose out. If BC Bantams are owned by a German company in which they both have equal voting rights then it might be different. I can’t see it happening personally, unless they want to, one goes they both go.
     
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  12. Mike Hunt

    Mike Hunt Impact Sub

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    B8285A07-D44A-496E-A822-97FB901191ED.jpeg
    All three had full voting rights
     
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  13. bantam2708

    bantam2708 Squad Player
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    Thing is though, is there any point in buying out Rahic and Rupp if those who are coming in aren't going to invest any more than R&R are now?

    I'm no fan of theirs but if this is the case, I'd rather they stayed and if maybe, just maybe they were willing to listen to those who actually know football, we could turn this around.

    However, if those interested (allegedly) want to invest more than R&R then I'm all for it.
     
  14. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    Don't think they did otherwise the two Rhodes' could simply have done whatever they wanted.
     
  15. Nick_W_

    Nick_W_ Squad Player

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    I agree, pretty sure Dr Rhodes didn't have a vote, I could be wrong though.
     
  16. Mike Hunt

    Mike Hunt Impact Sub

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    Clearly the 2015 annual return saying they each had an equal quantity of ordinary shares with full voting rights is incorrect then. Whether they had an agreement, formal or otherwise that the Prof would not exercise his right to vote is a different matter.
     
  17. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    No. It's not incorrect. It quite clearly said that they owned a third of the club each which is what was originally stated.

    Julian and Lawn as joint chairmen had a 50/50 split on the decision making though with Rhodes Snr not being involved in that side.
     
    #277 Aaron Baker, Apr 29, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2018
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  18. HUDDERSSBANTAM

    HUDDERSSBANTAM Squad Player

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    30k for Jacob Hanson is hardly a success either. Surely having spent money, you'd want him knocking on the door of the first team, after working with him for 18 months.
     
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  19. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
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    There are two issues here.

    Firstly, yes, Rupp isn't a statutory director of BC Bantams which owns Bradford City Football Club Ltd. But then neither he nor Rahic are shareholders of either club either. The last time I looked, the only shareholder of BC Bantams is a German company ER SportsGroup GmbH which in turn is owned by Rahic and Rupp. That's the reason why it is German shareholding rules which apply. Whether Rahic is entitled to represent Rupp's indirect interests in City is neither here nor there. The only important role in exercising control comes via the ultimate shareholder, ER SportsGroup which is owned by the two of them.

    Secondly, it isn't a simple issue of the majority shareholder telling the minority one to go whistle. In our recent history ML was a minority shareholder as was Richmond. But both managed to have a major influence on the club because of the way the shareholdings were structured and their rights defined. Without knowing the shareholding structure of ER Sportsgroup; the rights of those shareholders; the more general rights of German shareholding rights for minority shareholdings and the contents of any shareholding agreement between Rupp and Rahic, it's a brave man who would assume a minority shareholder could be told to go whistle.

    One final point. Professionally speaking, I have been involved in scores and scores of corporate restructuring of all sizes in the UK and I have yet to see one where the shareholding agreements/Articles of Association haven't provided clarity on what happens to minority shareholdings in the event of the majority shareholding wishing to sell their own shareholding. There are lots of options to deal with this eventuality. But without overt protection for minority shareholders, I wouldn't imagine anybody, anywhere wanting to be in such a position. I'd be very surprised to find one in Germany which wasn't handled in a similar manner given how much tighter Germany states are on ownership than are the UK authorities. It could be 'one out, all out' or continuation of whatever protection is already there between Rupp and Rahic. But Rahic is no fool and assuming he has been properly advised in how to protect his own investment, I doubt he would be held to ransom by his other shareholder wanting to sell the company from under his feet.
     
  20. Stafford Bantam

    Stafford Bantam Captain
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    That doesn't clarify the voting rights. These do:
    upload_2018-4-29_18-4-23.png

    upload_2018-4-29_18-13-18.png
     
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