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VAR

Discussion in 'General Football' started by Park bantam, Jun 10, 2019.

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VAR

  1. Good

    12 vote(s)
    23.5%
  2. Bad

    39 vote(s)
    76.5%
  1. Tennesseebantam

    Tennesseebantam Important Player
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    Bumping this back up. Just seen VAR work properly, Brighton pen overturned. So what? you say, well so far this season we have had a few where the VAR man has had a word with the ref and suggested he go and watch the replay on the telly. The sort of thing that rarely happened last season. Certainly an area that has improved.
     
  2. Edin Nowhere

    Edin Nowhere Impact Sub
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    Worked at the end of the game too. Brighton player leading with his arm at a corner deflecting MaGuires header. Ref blew for full time but went to the sidelines and gave the pen.

    First pen I gave seen awarded after the final whistle.
     
  3. Tennesseebantam

    Tennesseebantam Important Player
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    and for anyone not sure, because the handball occurred before he blew the final whistle, he was correct to allow the pk to be taken.
     
  4. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    The thing is though the ref wasting more time going and viewing it shouldn’t be needed. What exactly makes the ref on the pitch anymore qualified to make a decision than the experienced ref heading the VAR team. The only reason for needing the ref to check is that the VAR ref is scared of overruling the on field ref (which tbh is an issue that the officials behind the goal apparently had)
     
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  5. Tennesseebantam

    Tennesseebantam Important Player
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    @SimonW@SimonW - I agree, last year the VAR man rarely overruled the ref on the field. This year, at least they are asking them to go and have another look (using angles that weren't available to them). Of course you are right when you say the VAR man should save us time and just overrule the original decision but I do like that now it gives the ref a chance to "oops, I got it wrong" and that they are smart enough to change the call.
     
  6. Aleman

    Aleman Fringe Player

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    They can look at the screen now because there is no crowd atmosphere to kill any more - so they do, and still they get it wrong.


    "They've lost the plot, totally", said Steve Bruce after his side won a penalty that clearly was not.
     
  7. Edin Nowhere

    Edin Nowhere Impact Sub
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    Can I just say that VAR doesn't always get it right but yesterday's offside decision in the game between Palace and Leeds is one of those times where getting it wrong can be fully accepted.
     
  8. Aleman

    Aleman Fringe Player

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    Why are we still putting up with this nonsense? It's spoiling the game. I'd rather switch over and watch a film than have to go through this same garbage week in week out. When are they going to dump it?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54855596
     
  9. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    How is it nonsense, It's offside. It wouldn't have been last season but players and teams bitched about the handball rule so to make that fairer it was made so most of your upper arm isn't now a handball if it hits it. That means the player can score with that part of the arm so that part of the arm being offside is an offside.

    Offside is the ONLY place VAR actually works as its the only place it gives a definitive answer. Without it you could aks 100 refs and you wouldn't get a consensus because it then comes down to personal opinion
     
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  10. Edin Nowhere

    Edin Nowhere Impact Sub
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    The issue with this one is that there is a player you can't see behind Bamford so you can't draw a line on him and as the offside line is diagonally drawn on the pitch it is impossible to worn out where the two are in terms of being onside.

    It even looks like the Palace players foot which can't been seen because Bamford is in the way could be beyond the lines drawn by VAR.
    IMG_20201107_152223.jpg
     
  11. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    Something you need to remember is they aren’t using just a single camera. They use multiple camera and I believe from things I’ve read in some technical papers the software used translates where they place the lines on one camera with all the others (which requires a mathematical algorithm because the camera positions create a false perspective which skews where we think players are actually located compared to where they actually are) so they can actually make a decision even if players block line of sight.

    They just only generally give us a view of a so single angle that generally gives the best view to try and simplify it, instead of giving us 10 angles all of which to the human eye will suggest a player is on or off by different amounts
     
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  12. Edin Nowhere

    Edin Nowhere Impact Sub
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    They haven't reviewed this from multiple angles, not have they taken the position of the player behind Bamford. They don't even have a camera from the opposite side at Palace to measure that nor would cameras behind the goal be any help.
     
  13. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    See this is where you are wrong. For VAR offsides they use a total of 9 cameras. The main one and then 4 at each end


    VAR Cameras.png

    As highlighted in my image that's the main camera that is situated around the halfway line. One of either side of the pitch looking down the 18-yard box and two behind the goal. They are all used in conjunction (And yes the behind the goal ones do serve a purpose)

    These cameras are specially calibrated for each stadium as slight changes in the position impact it. These are checked before every game. It also takes the pitched into account as they aren't actually flat for drainage reasons so they 3d scan it and the camber is taken into account. The algorithm also takes into account the height of each part of a players body. You will often see situations where it looks like a players head is furthest forward but the offside system is measured from the knee or the boot despite looking further back, its another of the optical illusions that happen with the camera positions and has to be accounted for. It's a massively complex setup to ensure accuracy but it is as accurate as it can be and more accurate than a person can be.

    The only place it has some issues is the camera frame rate. They record in 50 frames a second, while that's higher than even High Frame Rate movies generally film in (which is usually 48 frames a second) for this use going even higher would be good, something north of 100fps, perhaps the 120fps cameras that Ang Lee has been using in his movies recently (Such as in the Will Smith Movie Gemini Man). The reason being that the higher the frame rate the easier it is to get that exact moment of contact, it's not massively a problem normally but on some of the highest calls if the contact happens between frames you can get a difference based on if you go with the frame before the contact or the frame after, 100 or 120 frames would make getting as close to the exact moment much easier as you have more frames to choose from
     
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    #213 SimonW, Nov 9, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2020
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  14. Frank Castle

    Frank Castle Captain
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    Just when you thought VAR couldn't get any worse, West Brom get an onside goal disallowed because they can't draw a fooking line with all the cameras and technology.
     
  15. Faithful Bantam

    Faithful Bantam Squad Player

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    VAR is farce. Bin it. Goal line technology and review of straight red cards and thats it.
     
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  16. Edin Nowhere

    Edin Nowhere Impact Sub
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    Tonight VAR disaster tops yesterdays Son near died disallowed goal.
     
  17. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    And, of course, it doesn't do away with controversies about interpretation. Man U had an excellent goal disallowed yesterday because the Spurs players appealed that Son had been hit in the face by McTominay. What actually happened was that Son was blatantly trying to grab McTominay's shirt. In trying to brush him off he accidentally made slight contact with Son's face and Son went down like he'd been uppercut by Joe Frazier. The ref watched the replay, focused only on the touch to the face (which he deemed as accidental, otherwise McTominay would have received a second yellow and been sent off), ignored the context, applied no commonsense and disallowed a perfectly good goal. Madness. The goal should have stood and Son should have been booked for simulation.
     
  18. Faithful Bantam

    Faithful Bantam Squad Player

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    That disallowed goal was a joke. Forget any team biases - football is about joy, goals, excitement. We're seeing quality goals disallowed for the most minor of infringements. If they're even infringements at all. That goal yesterday- brilliant foot work by Pogba, great awareness and lovely weighted pass, great movement by Cavani, great finish. Fans want to see that stuff. And it happens to every side in the PL. And what's worse, fans can't even celebrate goals now. That moment of joy when the ball hits the net - its gone. You have a half celebration and then wait to see if VAR is going to rob you. It seriously needs binning off.
     
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  19. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    Exactly. I was watching my other team, West Ham, yesterday. I jumped off my sofa when Lingard put his second goal away, then had to wait 30 seconds while they decided if Bowen had been offside before delivering the assist. It just kills the joy.
     
  20. Frank Castle

    Frank Castle Captain
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    Yesterday's VAR controversy is nothing compared to todays.

    VAR is supposed to stop mistakes like today and yet, because of the technology, they couldn't use common sense and see he was clearly onside.
     
    Faithful Bantam likes this.

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