UNFORGOTTEN : BRADFORD CITY FIRE

As I originally posted I've watched stuff in the passed with regards that day but they certainly weren't as graphic, I spoke with a friend who seen the preview at the Media Museum and he told me the scenes were a you say mostly unseen in the past.
I was sceptical about watching but even with those scenes it seemed like yesterday, on reflection I'm glad I watched the whole documentary.
As with others we were near the players entrance which was the last area to get engulfed, I helped a few out but felt maybe I could have done more but watching it again I've realised I couldn't, and that in itself has helped me with regards my guilt of that horrific day.

 

Totally agree.
However, in Jack we had one of the best business minds in the North.
If affordability was there to allegedly start work May 13th...
Surely affordability was there to start in 1984?

I'm aware I'm sliding towards what I wasn't wanting to include.

It puzzles me to why he wasn't mentioned?
(Apart from a brief name drop with a photo of him part of another shot)
It was rather unfair on Stafford.

 

Researchers have previously been denied access to the original film. Apart from when ITV sold a copy to the Fox network.
Did we really need crystal clear footage?

As for your feelings of guilt?
Feel justified in removing those feelings.
That particular hat clearly isn't yours to wear.
No guilt. No "what if".
You yourself are a relevant statistic as you've got mental scarring. I don't say that lightly.
It's not an easy fix.
Hope you find a way.

 

If you remember around that time clubs were encouraged to fence fans in especially behind the goals etc, it doesn't bear thinking about if Thatcher had made it compulsory to fence all sides of grounds in, actually congratulating Ken Bates for electrifying parts of the fencing at a Stamford Bridge
it was a horrific day but as you say with a full fenced in paddock it could have been far worse.

 

Watching that documentary although difficult certainly helped, you will always question could I have done more, watching the more graftic pictures made me realise no-one could have done more.
Unfortunately it's taken almost 40 years for fans who were there and tried to help to hopefully come to that conclusion unfortunately some will have passed with that guilt still with them, it's certainly help me watching it.

 

Only to address my own intrigue but was the new stand that was planned to be built the same as the one that ultimately was built or did the fire change all the plans? Was a new Kop included in the plans at the time as well?

 

From everything I have looked into. There were no "plans" for a rebuild.
No architect plans. Nothing submitted to FA and/or Council.

 

Here is your starter for 10. Full Planning Permission for Alterations and Extensions to Valley Parade on behalf of Bradford City AFC submitted in June 1984.

Just because you personally couldn't find it doesn't mean something doesn't exist. You'll probably have to visit City Hall to follow this up because documents of that age aren't readily available online.

 

June 1984?
So IF plans had been submitted, why by May 1985 had literally nothing been done to rectify known dangers and faults.

Jack, also stated in the Civil Case, that the only purchase had been a few roles of felt, to patch holes.
Why patch holes if rebuilding?

 

I'm simply proving your claim of nothing being submitted as being a statement of garbage. Took me all of 5min to find that so god knows how deep you claim to really have looked.

As for a timeline of "planning permission" Correct me if I am wrong, but it is first applied for, agreed and then actioned. Westfield had planning permission for 10 years before they did anything. Also to make alterations and extensions you need to plan around when contactors etc are available. The ideal time to anyone looking at it would clearly be off season, not during the season. These things kind of answer themselves.

 

Even the Police, wrote to the club (as "told to" by Jack, after an officer witnessed a boarding fall from the stand) so they did. Advising the stand posed a danger to supporters & general public.
And again. Nothing was done and was also 1984.

 

I'm flicking back through stuff.
I'm not saying the info you shared is wrong. But I need to follow up again as previously it led nowhere. Something had been logged, but literally nothing followed.
So maybe more did happen? Records will show.

 

I'm simply replying to this comment of yours

"From everything I have looked into. There were no "plans" for a rebuild.
No architect plans. Nothing submitted to FA and/or Council."

For which it took me 5 min to prove it as being incorrect. Clearly something was planned which no doubt was superceeded by the later tragic events and rended irrelevant.

So maybe, just maybe you don't hold all the answers you think you do.

 

What link/site did you obtain these screenshots?
I'll submit a request for all info.

 

The Bradford Council planning portal. I thought someone as thorough as you would have visited that site as a starting point.

Again historic documents that far back are usually only referenced and not actually kept online. But I have handed you the planning code, who put the planning in and who they applied for. So you have two routes to explore (Geoffrey Lee Associates & Bradford Council).

 

The documentary showed 4 fires that had happened in the years leading up to the disaster at Brentford, Brighton, Norwich and Bristol and nothing was done anywhere. It was only after Bradford that Wolves closed similar stands.

Same with Hillsborough, near misses were ignored and it was only after Hillsborough that cages were removed.

We living in a reactionary world, If you want a more recent example I will point to Grenfell Tower. In 2017 we lived in a world where flat blocks were insulated with highly flammable cladding, 2017.

 

What is your motivation @Steampig behind your post here?
Are you trying to prove blame, conspiracy etc 40 years on?
Behind many tragedies there can, and almost will be accountability which goes way beyond just football tragedies.

Many could and should have been prevented.

It’s all lessons learned which sadly always ends up with loss of life.

The documentary was about remembering a tragedy which has been somewhat forgotten except in Bradford, which will never be forgotten!

It was giving account of how it unfolded, how it affected everyone involved and the community itself.
Your reasons here don’t seem as a genuine interest and look to have an ulterior motive

Let people be at rest without trying to dig up whatever it is you’re trying to achieve, which can been seen incredibly insensitive and finger pointing

 

Planning takes months to process and in the case of sports clubs at a professional level , usually organised to run through the close season

 

If I can add my three penneth. I worked in Building Control/Planning at the time and I was due to meet builders on site on the Monday after the game to discuss proposals to replace the timber and felt roof with a lightweight wriggly tin one. That roof had lasted 82 years and I am confident that this match would have been the last one with the timber and felt roof.
It hurts me and I am sure it hurts others that people still question the cause of the fire‍‍