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Salford City, The State of Football & Financial Fair Play

Discussion in 'General Football' started by DazW, May 31, 2019.

  1. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    Not really. Past the Championship no one really cares what happens bar the fans of those clubs. The premier league cares about nothing but itself and in a sense why should it? Can't let tail wag the dog. The premier league has gone way past the point some were thinking where all they saw was impending doom. The big kicker these days is the foreign market and they can't get enough of premier league football.
     
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  2. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    They weren’t the biggest spenders though in the conference and were well within the wage limits if they were in League 2 last season. They are a fairly well run club who will spend well on a key player but aren’t just throwing money on 25 lower league galaticos
     
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  3. How

    How Knows Football
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    They weren’t in league two though and that wage bill has gone up again.

    I’m not disputing they have spent it wisely but they are spending big money for a club who has just come into football league. No doubting it. Big wages.
     
  4. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
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    They already have done. The EFL has been negotiating its own TV broadcasting contracts with overseas TV operators for a few seasons now, quite separate from the PL's overseas contracts. And more importantly, they have also now negotiated a separate deal from the PL with Sky to broadcast EFL games for the next 5 seasons. So change is already happening.

    As an aside, it was the EFL Sky TV deal which led to Harvey being sacked from the EFL because of the way the contract is distributed and a handful of the larger Championship clubs took exception to it.
     
  5. Onside

    Onside Squad Player
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    In what way?
     
  6. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    I'm not sure you can say City have done it the right way though. For about 4 seasons they were spending 120% of their revenue on wages. Even getting below 100% has been suspect ranging from things like sacking most of their non-playing staff and then having a 3rd party company hire them and 'lease' them out to city for an amount much lower than they would be paid being directly employed to te various suspicious actions that they have been revealed to have undertaken to inflate income. If their owners had pulled out having got bored of their play thing (which isn't unknown when it comes to Arabs and their purchases) then city were screwed and even now with the uncertainties on legitimacy of sponsor revenue they could be in trouble. Same with PSG, both clubs are just lucky that they hate each other and are using sport as a battlefield which is keeping both interested longer term
     
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  7. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    I'm not sure how much I believe the Ramos story, certainly not the fee. While a couple of seasons ago they were throwing money around like it was going out of fashion but the Chinese government were concerned about it and changed the laws. They still have decent money to spend but not the bottomless pot they did all have
     
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  8. How

    How Knows Football
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    That line comes about a lot with Man City’s owners, what happens if they get bored? They have been there for 12 years now and continue to invest and they have more clubs under the city umbrella than ever.

    They have made Man City one of the top ten in the world in terms of revenue and it wouldn’t matter if they walked tomorrow now. City would have to cut back some spending but with the money in the premier league now and the amount they make from kit deals etc they wouldn’t suffer too much. They would probably need to cut back on some areas but what’s the difference between that and Chelsea or Wolves for example?

    My point about doing it the right way was yes they spend money and we know it’s more than most but they invested in the right infrastructure and coaches etc to become the best
     
  9. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    Not sure I would say buying the league. Through most of those seasons other teams outspent United . If you look at most seasons United would buy one Marquee signing and then the rest were lower key ones. And it was always done with the clubs own money and wages were always at around 50% of revenue. Certainly a lot of the players United bought had better financial offers on the table from teams like Leeds, Blackburn, Newcastle or even Liverpool and later on Chelsea and City. Unless you moved to a draft system you are always going to get talent being attracted to a more successful team.

    If anything United are trying to buy the league more now than during Fergies time because without being right at the top of the game more money has to be spent to persuade people to join
     
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  10. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    The problem is its difficult to find a punishment that works. The idea is clearly that the hope is that the fines work as a deterrent so clubs shouldn’t even reach a situation where they need to be fined (or docked points or kicked out of tournaments which is just as bad). The problem is while it is effective for most clubs you always get someone who says 'screw it we will deal with the consequences later' and it ends up causing major issues. And fines also have different impacts, if you were to fine man city 10% of their revenue they wouldn't blink as their owner would look down the back of the sofa to find it but do the same with Bolton and it bankrupts them.

    We were seeing way too many clubs though getting into trouble at one point though and while it’s certainly not fixed it has helped a bit even though the deterrent isn’t perfect
     
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  11. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    I'm not saying they will pull out but the problem is city as a club aren't sustainable at the level they are at without their owners. Their stadium naming and shirt sponsor deals are from their owners company and much like PSG's are suspected of being massively inflated. They sold their image rights to a 3rd party company for what seems an inflated amount which the leaks show the company gets a massive handout from city’s owners to fund the deal and you have their non-playing staff situation. Even their new shirt manufacturers deal they announced isn’t even with the club itself but the City Group as a whole and they will decide how much a cut city get so if they pulled out of city that would be a complicated situation. The one really positive thing about their owners has been the infrastructure investment (unless there is some dodgy deal with that) as infrastructure helps a club even if the owners pull out, that’s where rich owners should really be encouraged to invest in and less so with over paying playing players to a point it’s beyond the clubs means without the owners money.

    And yes they aren’t the only club with this issues. Wolves is worrying because they have kind of become a team owned by an agent and agents are a big enough problem already and Chelsea were in a similar boat but By the point FFP become a concern Abramovich had started scaling back and they have been trying hard to make themselves more self sustaining. Chelsea big issue is if Abramovich does sell at some point is Chelsea owe him over a billion so on top of what the clubs valued. So unless he writes that off any new owner either needs to pay him off or keep paying him his dividend
     
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  12. Damo

    Damo Squad Player

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    The one argument being levied against Man City is the source of the money. I.e. its a countries slush fund coming from oil. I think this argument is a bit thin and maybe slightly racist. Who's to say who's money is better than others? Abramovich who became rich by plundering the resources of a country at very cheap prices when they became privatised or Qatar? i would also argue that PSG are far more extravagant in their spending
     
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  13. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    See I don't agree. I don't think anyone would have a problem with where the money comes from if the bulk of the investment was going into infrastructure but in most cases with such owners that's an afterthought used to gain some 'political capital'. It's that the money is being put into the football side at levels that make them totally reliant on the owners. PSG and City without the money both directly from their owners and via the under the table methods would be screwed and that's not good as you can never rely on owners always being there and willing to put their hands in their pocket. For a long time Villa with Randy Lerner were being held up as the perfect example of an owner, infact with Man Utd he was the example the Red Knights would always use but when he stopped being willing to shoulder the costs look what happened to them.

    Chelsea I'm not so sure are still in the same boat fully, I suspect if Abramovich decided to pull out fully they would have some hard financial decisions to make but during one of his periods of seeming to lose interest (He seems a bit of a bi-polar owner, sometimes he is all in and the biggest fan there is and others he almost seems like he doesn't care) that saw them make some changes to make themselves better run and certainly a more appealing target for buyers if he did want to sell up as there is at least the basis to build a successful but self-sustaining club out of Chelsea something you City and PSG are no where near right now
     
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  14. How

    How Knows Football
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    Didn’t Man City turnover over 500 million last season? Be interested to know how they would not cope?

    Wages to turnover at 52% is it? Not high at all
     
  15. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    Dn't have to worry about the owners pulling out of Manchester City, won't happen. They're it for the long haul, they have clubs and facilities worldwide and City will only continue to grow as a worldwide brand, though i do admit they are a fair way behind the likes of Liverpool and United, they'll soon be bigger than other team bar those two in this country. Its the way football is heading and won't stop, its one of the biggest cash cows in the world.
     
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  16. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    Again though it all comes down to where that turnover is actually coming from. When it comes from companies owned by the owner is suspect even more so when there is a suspicion that it's inflated. And then there are the other deals such as the image right sales where the leaks suggest almost all that money is given to the buying company from Citys owners.

    Just look at the commercial income in the PL

    Man Utd £254m
    Man City £232m
    Chelsea £170m
    Liverpool £154m
    Arsenal £107m
    Spurs £109m

    While success does play a part in commercial income it's more about a clubs reach both at home and abroad. Of those clubs, City have both the smallest fan bases home and abroad and the smallest name recognition so how are they so far ahead of everyone but United and only £22mill behind United? City don't even come in the top 10 of most worldwide fans after all while United top it and Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal are in it

    And on the wages, you also need to remember as mentioned that most of the non-playing staff are not employed by the club. Even the fees for 'leasing' these staff don't go onto the wage bill. The player's wages obviously are greater than the rest but it's still knocked a decent amount of the wage bill, wages that would have to be moved back in the event of the owners stepping back

    That's why they would have issues without their owners, they don't just rely on the direct investment but also the for their actual revenue streams
     
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  17. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    While I don't think they will just up and leave totally dismissing the possibility is troublesome. Their investment like most of the business ventures of the UAE royal families is very much tied into political motives rather than business motives which is highlighted by how much money Etihad Airlines has lost over the years. What happens if the rivalry with some of the countries in the region (such as Qatar) thaws or what happens if something happens with the leadership situation in the country as their riches are all linked to being in that position

    There is also the knock-on effect they have when living beyond their means. It does push others to do the same, many of whom don't have the safety net.

    It's why it's important for football to try and ensure all clubs are legitimately living within their means and not being propped up by their owners as you never know what will happen with the owners and you don't want other owners to take the risk of going all in
     
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  18. Damo

    Damo Squad Player

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    Winning creates fans. It’s fair to say their style of play must win fans too
     

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