Our Naz

Suggesting that Israeli secret service forces have been training US agencies is a million miles away from being anti-Semitic. It's well known that they have. The media deliberately blurs the distinction between real anti-Semitism and opposition to the disgraceful hard right Israeli government, which are not the same thing at all. And plenty of people are too ignorant or lazy to appreciate the difference. So RLB has probably been unfairly treated here.

Having said that, I'm glad that Starmer has done this. It's obvious he only put RLB in his shadow cabinet because she came second in the leadership ballot. He's obviously seized on the first available opportunity to dump her. This shows that he is serious about repairing the public perception that the LP is riddled with antisemites; it clearly isn't - they are a tiny but vocal minority - but it might as well be if the public thinks it is. It also shows that he is serious about purging the Trots and Stalinists that Kinnock kicked out in the 80s and that Corbyn stupidly allowed back in. This tells me that Starmer is a tough cookie who is determined to reposition Labour as the centre left party it has always been whenever it has succeeded in getting elected.

 

Half of Momentum supporters voted for Starmer in the leadership ballot. A large proportion of Momentum are just enthusiastic kids. Lansman has gone, thank goodness. The responsible adults are resuming control again.

 

The hardest part of Starmers job is not defeating the tories, its clearing the toxic waste from within that has denied Labour the last couple of elections. It will be tough turning around a sinking ship that has a habit of sinking itself rather than anything to do with the opposition. Get rid of the foul stench that follows the party round by showing strong leadership and he could be in power for a long time, as long as they don't tear themselves apart. thats the worry for Starmer, the warring factions wanting to send the party in different direction. Starmer must be clear in his thinking, if that means casualties along the way then all the better.

 

There's time. The Tories have four and a half years to crash us out of our biggest market with no deal; continue to totally mismanage our pandemic response; tank our economy in comparison to equivalent other countries; throw millions out of work onto hopelessly inadequate benefits and preside over a never ending series of corruption leaks and scandals like Cummings' jaunt to Durham and the Desmond/Kendrick stitch up. Johnson is an utterly incompetent, lazy, lying w&nker. He is being eviscerated in the Commons by Starmer, who has more brains in his toes than Boris the clown has in his head. No government in living memory has been this ineffectual or this unpopular so soon after a landslide GE victory. Most ruling parties exhaust public support after fifteen years in office and that will be far too long in power to blame any of the mess we'll be in on Labour.

Yes, the left of the LP will whine and shout about selling out the true socialist way, and all that guff. But if Starmer can carry on the way he's going he'll have turned Labour into a government in waiting the way Blair did in the 90s. Some of the membership will be unhappy but most will realise that having purist principles without power is just pissing in the wind.

The problem Starmer has is that the Tory majority is currently so big that it may not be possible to overturn it in a single five year electoral period. It may be that the best he can do is to cut the government's majority drastically. By which time the Tory party will be tearing itself to shreds and hopefully won't last the full term beyond 2025.

 

Kick all the Trots, stalinists and Anti semites out and what have you got left...? Starmer and that's about it, Butler and Ashworth next I hope then he might be getting somewhere...

 

Labour Government ?. The civil war begins , Momentum and Corbyn on the rampage this morning lovely . Imagine ( realms of fantasy ) Corbyn and co in charge , like i said earlier they've elected another glove puppet who ( unless its a party ) will never see the inside of No 10 . They never learn , it will be split in 2 in the near future , this type of thing is always bubbling under the surface .

 

Your middle paragraph is the political game in a nutshell and something that the Tories are very good at in pulling together for the greater good despite what differences they might have. Corbyn's well sentimented but naive political views might have had a whiff of Labour of yesteryear but that ship sailed a long time ago. It has effectively put Labour back years rather than galvanised them as a credible opposition.
Its where Starmer has to be strong, the dissenting voices have to crushed early doors or the party will just keep giving the winning pass the parcel back to the Conservatives come voting time.
As the Tories have shown, its about geting your feet through the door first, once you have the keys to the door you can do what you like when you're inside. No point whatsoever being outside the door kicking and stamping your feet with your own little agenda, when in opposition you're views are merely an opinionj with little relevance.

 

Good post mate and once again as you say the media write whatever they believe will sell papers.
I suggest a "disgraceful hard right Israeli" is just what's required when your country is surrounded by many countries that would be happy to see Isreal wiped of the face of the planet.
Starmer has over 4 years to turn the party around because if he can't get Labour into a winning position with regards polls at the present moment with the Tories handling of Covid-19 and brexit for the remainers he never will.

 

bibi is a warmonger who is contributing to israels problems as much as anything. i understand their position is a unique one but he is too far.

 

i agree, im probably to the left of starmer et al but im not so blind as to ignore the fact you don't get a prize for coming second in the election. it will be easier for us on the left to get some good policies through the door dealing with a starmer government than a tory one. as you say mate, once you're in there is when you start doing what you like

 

Starmer is going about it the right way, if party officials aren't behind his strategy and aims then they need kicking out. The infighting has cost Labour the last two elections, both winnable.

 

If it is well known provide the evidence, The US Police, Israel and The Us Government have all denied it and the allegation has been withdrawn by the Woman who posted it, It is no surprise you jump on anything that may criticise Israel like the rest of the left,

 

Read what I said properly. Amnesty have been reporting for years that Mossad are training the yanks. What has been denied and withdrawn is the specific allegation that they are training them to kneel on necks. We'll probably never know if that's true or not - the fact that they've denied it doesn't necessarily mean it isn't true.
But the fact that it isn't proven has allowed Starmer to call it a conspiracy theory (which it may be) and given him the excuse to dump RLB, who he only put in the shadow cabinet because of his pledge to give a slot to each of the leadership contenders.
As I said, I'm pleased about this. From a realpolitik point of view it appeases the press, helps towards changing the view that Labour is institutionally anti-Semitic, and gets rid of the biggest link with the Corbyn disaster era. As an added bonus, it is also causing a fair few hard-line Corbynistas to resign their LP membership, which is no bad thing in my book.
But none of this means that I think RLB, or Maxine Peake, is anti-Semitic. We've now got a the point where it's almost impossible to criticise the hard right, apartheid, land grabbing Israeli government policies of Likud without being accused of anti-Semitism.

 

Problem with buzzwords like anti semitic is they effectively end debate by their very nature and we end up with a situation of silence and denial driven by fear of reprisal by ulterior agendas. Swap the words anti semitism for racism and you have the flip side of the coin where systematic denial of abuse of white children went unpunished for years because of fear of what would happen to the whistle blower. And if we aren't careful we end with the situation Jewish people found themselves in in the 30s, my wife's Jewish ancestors being a prime example. A tough subject that needs serious discussion rather than being used to score political points.

 

Its designed to kill debate stone dead and its got worse over the last few years. It was painful viewing in the house of commons, Labour going with tories are racists angle so the Tories counter with the anti semitic angle knowing its a battle neither can win but more importantly can't lose. But in the meantime attrocities are carried out in Palestine and white kids from poor backgrounds are still groomed, problems still going on because of petty political point scoring.

 

I would say the looney crack pot policies cost labour the last election.

The northern seat losses must go down for not respecting brexit and getting tough on immigration both of these mistakes must come on the head of starmer from the last election.

The question now for Starmer and labour is he willing to change because the door is opening with the weak immigration policies of Boris johnson(3 Million chinese can have passports and thousands illegal crossings of English channel)

My bet is no chance of this with who is in his shadow cabinet and the man himself.

 

It's impossible to criticise almost anything these days and it's mainly thanks to the hard left that Labour fully embraced. You can't go complaining now the social policies the LP wanted to implement is now biting them back on the arse!

 

Slightly off topic, but one of the funniest things i'v seen in years, Sasha Baron Cohen taking the piss out of redneck America. Again. Absolute genius.

 

Why are you so obsessed about immigration?