Most liked posts in thread: Odsal Redevelopment, Council Finances, Council Services & The Private Sector

We’ve had this discussion before. There are several things going on.
When I started working for Bradford Social Services in 1984 we were the best social services department in the region, attracting quality staff from various neighbouring authorities. And it got even better into the 90s. We had effective preventative services working intensively with the parents of kids at risk of coming into care, so we were able to prevent that happening to many, despite the fact that Bradford was and is a poorer area than most, with consequently higher likelihood of neglect and abuse.
We had lots of council-run children’s homes and also many council-run care and nursing homes for old people. They were far from perfect, but they were mostly a bloody sight better than what’s out there in the private sector today. Residential staff were better paid and better trained and generally stayed in post far longer than today’s highly rotational care workforce.
But other areas forged economically ahead of Bradford and enticed experienced staff away. Salary levels fell behind other areas and we became more reliant on agency staff due to chronic recruitment and retention problems. This trend accelerated following the 2008 banking crash and the decade of relentless Tory budget cuts from 2010. So we’ve ended up with child protection teams full of inexperienced, newly qualified social workers and transient, expensive agency staff.
We saw wholesale closure of council residential homes for kids and adults, as well as cuts to and privatisation of home care services, as budget cuts forced staff cuts.
To make matters worse, a tiny number of child death tragedies nationally - Baby P, Star Hobson etc - (measured against the many thousands of successful cases) created a moral panic that has seen the threshold for child protection interventions drop dramatically. This has led to far more admissions to care as child protection services everywhere have become more risk-averse for fear of adverse publicity (as though any system, in any walk of life can never make the occasional mistake). And, of course, the pandemic exacerbated the child protection and elderly care problems that we already had in spades.
So we’ve got a perfect storm:
- higher than average child admissions to care
- poor population with complex elderly needs
- very few preventative services
- sub-optimal (but expensive) child protection teams
- very few in-house residential facilities
- massive over reliance on private elderly care homes and (mostly out of area) hyper-expensive private children’s homes.

The council’s budget is a fraction of what it used to be. We’re by no means the only council, of any political persuasion, on the verge of bankruptcy - there are many nationally - but not all of them have the ingrained structural problems that we have. The amount of money that is need to restore local care services to what they used to be is frightening and, tbh, I can’t see it ever happening, whoever is in power locally or nationally.

 

Just one of the many examples of ‘private sector good, public sector bad’ that have decimated our public services and cost us billions (and counting).
It’s a statement of the bleeding obvious to say that privatised services will a) (after their initial unrealistic tenders) charge more because, unlike the public sector, they have to make a profit and b) reduce wages and service quality to maximise profits. Then, once we’ve closed down the public alternatives they have the worst thing - a private monopoly that can do what the hell it wants, which is where we are now. This was all so utterly predictable. But, no, the Tories’ mythical private sector ‘efficiency’ was going to do it all so much better and cheaper. How long do we keep falling for this utterly discredited Thatcherite bollocks?

 

It says £100m cost. You mention £50m fund.
Where is the other £50m coming from?
Why the frig do the Bulls need a 25k stadium when their gates are sub 3k and they don't have a pot to piss in.

Another pie in the sky plan for Superdome mk27.

Bradford City will be hosting Champions League games before this is ever built.

 

Absolutely pointless. If the RFL want a national stadium they should fully fund it themselves. This is totally irresponsible use of funds by BDMC, even on the cost of the plans.

1) It wont attract concerts when Manchester Arena is 35 miles away and holds 23,000, Leeds Arena is 10 miles away and holds 13,000 and Sheffield Arena is also 35 Miles away holding 15,000
2) Boxing wont use it because of the availability of Manchester
3) The Bulls get 3,000 crowds and dont need a bigger venue
4) Bradford City won't relocate there because they understand the impact it would have on the City Centre economy on match days and the feeling amongst City fans against Odsal - a move to Odsal would slash our attendances and income.
5) This would take away the only money making sport at Odsal - Stock Cars
6) Traffic problems caused by people having to get across the City rather than into the City
7) The levelling up fund is there to build infrastructure and jobs, not stadiums that aren't needed
8) We already have a 25,000 capacity stadium in the City, irrelevant of who owns it
9) More people would drive to Odsal causing parking and traffic issues
10) The cost would be significantly more than the £50million stated. Once a full structural assessment is made the plan will be shelved as uneconomic
11) The RFL would only use it for semi finals. It isnt big enough for the Grand Final or the challenge Cup Final, which would continue to go to Old Trafford & Wembley

 

We’ve discussed the boom times at Odsal before.
I lived by the old Craven Heifer from being a kid. The mid 90’s when the Bulls were the biggest and best team in Super league were great times.
The ten years that followed under Elliot and Noble showed the rest of rugby how to put on a match day experience.
It became a proper family day out,not just the 80 minutes of actual rugby.
The facilities around there were definitely limited but that didn’t stop 15/20,000 turning up (mostly on a Friday night) on a regular basis.
Local pubs and shops definitely benefited from a successful Bulls team.

I’ve not been for a lot of years but the one thing I am slightly jealous of is how limited the actual match day experience is at VP.
There’s just no incentive to turn up any more than 5 minutes before kick off and then head straight home 1 minute after the final whistle.

The Bulls in their pomp certainly got that bit right.

 

You know what… a lot of these transport “ projects” are replacements for Beeching’s decimation of the railways in the 60’s on behalf of the road lobby. Many said it was short sighted and there you go!

 

Yes it was. I'm retired almost 15 years now and dealt with countless Planning issues in my time so the memory may be a bit hazy but not totally gone.
As I recall a Planning Application was made by a commercial Property Company for a redevelopment of the Stadium plus all sorts of other usess such as retail and it was widely speculated the store would be a Tesco Extra (big) which would replace the samller store on Halifax Road which they operated after buying Hillards in 1987.
Objections on competition grounds were usually frowned on but my Company objected on the grounds the site was not allocated for retail in what in those days was called the Bradford Unitary Development Plan which allocated what uses went where. There were many other objections on the same ground plus such as traffic. I can't recall the whole issues.
The Application was lodged sometime in 2000 and withdrawn in 2002, I think, when the developer realised there was no chance of success and without the commercial elements there was no chance of the stadium.
It wasn't just a Morrison objection, even the Council could not have gone against their approved Plan.
The site has never been allocated for any other use in any new Development Plans since. Hope that helps.

 

Having worked for a public funded body in my early years, non of this surprises me. There was no control over what was spent, it wasn't their money after all, just the tax payers. We were eventually privatised and when the managers had to actually think to earn the cash, it was not long before the redundancy's started. The blue collar workers went first, which made it even harder for said business, too many chief's and not enough indians , as the saying goes.
Some of these so called top leaders/ managers are not fit for purpose.Bradford council a prime example.

 

No. They are in the main run by private companies and hedge funds after Councils were encouraged to outsource childrens' home provision. They now have Councils over a barrel and can charge what they like and make enormous profits. As Councils have a statutory obligation to provide these services they have to pay through the nose, or rather we do, and the services are now often of poor quality. A poor strategic decision.
This article sets out the problem well
https://transparencyproject.org.uk/privatisation-of-childrens-services-is-bad-for-children-and-bad-for-taxpayers/

 

This

 

All public services should be run by the state. Privatisation only results in poorer service and the enrichment of those responsible. Which was, of course, the intention all along.

 

This season it's not an issue, last season under Adams, it was the only thing to keep you sane.

 

Yeah, the multi millionaire Gibb will be shitting himself at the thought of negotiating terms with Bradford City when their only bargaining token is a non existent new stadium. He knows we won't leave VP and he holds ALL the cards. Thats why he's a successful and very rich businessman.

 

It really isnt as inaccessible as you are making out. I’ve lived in Oakenshaw/Low Moor & Wyke for about 10 years and all the ‘problem’ travelling you mention is exactly what I’ve done to get to VP.….in the reverse route. Once through centre traffic, 10 minutes up Manchester Road and you are there.

It really isn’t an issue. Maybe if you are getting trains up, it messes up your plans, but there are plenty of us this side of the City and in Halifax, Brighouse, Wibsey, Queensbury, Clayton, Shelf, Bierley, Cleckheaton etc who wouldn’t be travelling as far to Odsal as VP so it’s swings and roundabouts for those in Eccleshill, Idle, Thackley, Shipley, Baildon, App Bridge etc.

Bradford town centre is an utter dump - I wouldn’t be using that as a selling point for the commute from train to ground. Someone was stabbed in town again only the other week.

I went in a few Sundays ago to take the kids to the cinema near Broadway and town (not cinema) was full of smackheads and rats as ever. A hideous place. Pound shops and little else - absolutely no reason to visit. Hopefully that changes when the music venue at Odeon site opens.

The bus services and routes that served Bulls fans in their pomp would serve our fanbase. 20k and above used to have no issue.

Truth is, most fans drive to matches anyway.

 

If it’s a choice between Valley Parade and Odsal , clearly VP
If it’s a choice and a suitably located new stadium then the latter. The latter will never happen because we don’t have funds and the Council are solely focused on saving and protecting the dying professional Rugby team in the City. That I can’t get my head around……both are private businesses, so it leads me to believe they think City can support itself, whereas Rugby league needs a wheelchair and is somehow worth taxpayer subsidies.
Just a complete waste of funds imho. Hope that clarifies?

 

Completely agree. In my fantasy world i've flattened everything from where the mills are near the travel lodge including Halfords and Sports direct. Giving me a lovely flat footprint to build my 65,000 stadium ready for citys return to the premiership. In my dreams.

 

Been going to Valley Parade since 1977 and to be perfectly honest that to me is Home and always will be.
Some would say progress over sentiment but not me re moving away rightly or wrongly I'm old school and have shared to many memories with family and friends in good and bad times.
Over the years you become part of the fixtures and fittings so to speak and although a move would suit some it's not for me.