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Haringey Match abandoned after racist abuse

Discussion in 'General Football' started by Storck, Oct 19, 2019.

  1. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    The problem is if people actually read the article about it Neville doesn’t blame Brexit, he blames Boris comment in the debate

    This is what he said

    “You are watching the Prime Minister’s debate last night where he is talking about migration to this country, and people having to have certain levels.
    “It fuels it all the time. It has got worse over the last few years in this country and not just in football.”

    So he is trying to link Boris wanting some kind of actual control on immigration with being racists, Wanting that isn't racist, countries don’t have finite resources so you don’t want an unlimited number of low skilled workers. You want immigrants who fill gaps in British society so for example right now we need qualified nurses but maybe in a few years we are in a position where letting in more nurses may block newly qualified Brits in joining the work force so we need to switch focus to another job sector that needs workers but there is a lack of Brits suitable for the roles
     
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  2. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    Jeez. How long have you been on here? It's hardly a secret that my political views are left of centre.

    But I'm a centre lefty. I spent a lot of energy in the 1980s helping to get Militant out of the LP. I'm not happy that some of those Trots, and other hard lefties from the SWP and suchlike, have been allowed to enter the LP.
    Most of the anti-Semitism in the LP comes from those people, or those with similar views, who are mostly relatively new members and whose hard left views really have no place in the LP. It only takes a few hundred determinedly vocal antisemites in a membership of 500,000 to get the party a bad name. The overwhelming majority of LP members are avowedly anti-racist and despise the anti-Semites.
    By contrast, my experience of Tory Party members, and many of their supporters, is that many of them hold racist views. That's not 'one eyed', it's my personal experience. Yours may be different.
     
    #42 Offcomedun, Dec 11, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
  3. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    Nope. The photo wasn't faked or stage managed.
    It's the fake news notion that the photo was bogus that has been stage managed.

    Hospitals don't issue apologies for unacceptable levels of care unless something has gone badly wrong.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/10/woman-says-account-hacked-to-post-fake-story-about-hospital-boy?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
     
  4. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    I would equally say there is no evidence it was a 'bareface lie' over the 'punch' rather than just a lack of due diligence. We don't know who the Party Member who gave the story to the press was and the chain it took to get to that level. After all with how many cameras are constantly around all of us in the day I just don't see anyone thinking 'Lets lie about something that happened in public, there is no way we will get caught out'. The circumstances just make getting away with a blatant lie impossible.

    If I had to guess whats most likely happened is someone out of the corner of their eye has seen it, its looked in that situation like a punch. That story has filtered up and then someone higher up has fallen into that modern-day trap where the worlds happening at such a pace that people take things way too much at face value and feel they have to say something and then check the validity later. It's still bad not to do your due diligence, especially when it would have been easy to ask the aide in question but there is a difference between saying something incorrect that you believed and an outright lie

    I don't know. With today's 'cancel culture' you see a fair amount of apologies even from people who are later vindicated just because its more likely to defuse a situation somewhat than to protesting innocence. Not saying it was staged, just that when they will want to put it to bed either way an apology gets it off the front pages quicker
     
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  5. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    People believe whatever they want to suit their own narrative. The faux outrage that ensues is pretty funny.
     
  6. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    You may be correct about the 'punch'. Difficult to know for sure. Certainly the way it was reported on ITV news suggested they believed it was a deliberate attempt at misinformation designed to divert attention away from the photo and from Johnson's cringeworthy attempt to ignore it by pocketing the reporter's phone.

    As far as the photo goes, I know from my own personal and professional experience (as well as many press reports) that hospitals are generally defensive and tend to admit mistakes very reluctantly indeed. Getting an apology for bad practice is usually like getting blood out of a stone and they only do it when they've exhausted all other excuses.
    I find it hard to believe that the hospital would have issued so swift an apology unless the incident was genuine and they knew they were bang to rights.
     
  7. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player
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    If that's your personal experience and opinion then there can't be many arguments but reading your last few posts it almost comes across as you're defending the issue in your party by arguing that another party is much worse.

    Maybe that's where the whole problem lies in that it's being made more acceptable because instead of racism being tackled instantly and at the source, those in power are happy to sling mud and say vote for us because we're a little bit less racist than them and using excuses like Brexit to deflect from their inability to get their own house in order.
     
    Hoochy-Min likes this.
  8. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    Dennis likes this.
  9. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
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    Some might well poo-poo it simply because the Guardian reported it. But Matt Hancock was dispatched by Conservative HQ to travel to Leeds and apologise to the parents for the poor treatment of their son. Quite separately LGI also apologised to the parents. These interventions suggest that the issue was a genuine one.

    The Spectator, one of the most loyal of all Tory publications and where Boris was once editor, even suggested in their evening bulletin on the night of the incident that it wasn't a hoax and that Boris had just got it wrong.

    It doesn't end there of course. Conservative HQ then briefed various friendly journalists that Matt Hancock's aide had been assaulted by Labour activists on the visit to Leeds. CCHQ then had to apologise when CCTV footage showed there was no truth in it.
     
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  10. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    I'm not defending the issue in my party. It's a real issue that needs to be rooted out and stopped. There is a small number of very left wing idiots who are virulently anti-Semitic because they have crackpot beliefs about global Jewish capitalist conspiracies. They are a tiny fraction of the membership but the distress they cause is very real and the damage they do to the LP is massively disproportionate to their numbers. I am highly critical of Corbyn for failing to stamp this cancer out firmly and quickly. He hasn't done so because most of these crackpots support him. He is not a racist but he has failed to deal with those that are.
    However, the anti-Semitism issue is complicated. There are many LP members, myself included, who are very critical of the current hard right Israeli government because of its treatment of the Palestinians and it's continual illegal land grabs. These members are not anti-Semitic. But the conservative Jewish establishment in Britain wants to define any criticism of Israel's government, however justified, as anti-Semitism. Corbyn's failure to deal with the real antisemites in the party has allowed the two issues - genuine anti-Semitism and criticism of Israel - to become conflated and the media has dismally failed to distinguish between the two. This has given the impression to the general public that the LP is rammed full of anti-Semites, when nothing could be further from the truth.
    There are many Jewish LP members, and other Jewish people, who are very critical of Israel and of the unelected British Jewish 'leadership'. Non religious Jews are 50% of the British Jewish population but the 'leadership' is totally synagogue-based and its uncritical support for the Israeli government does not represent the views of many British Jews.

    https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/statement/jewish-voice-for-labour-lobbies-bbc-over-election-coverage-bias/

    https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/fifty-times-jeremy-corbyn-stood-with-jewish-people/
     
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