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European Super league

Discussion in 'General Football' started by Park bantam, Apr 18, 2021.

  1. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    With more teams involved the pot will need to be shared more ways.
     
  2. Bronco

    Bronco Star Player
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    That was the line Neville took, once we know the teams who have agreed to join the ESL then the powers that be step in and make the call with regards making an example of them.
    It would be interesting to get a poll of fans from these clubs to get their thoughts with regards what THEIR CLUBS are proposing to do, and the potential effect on football in general more so the ELF where many clubs are sailing close to the wind financially, a bloody disgrace.
     
  3. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    Did make me laugh watching the pundits on BT Sport losing their shit over it. The game has been shaftng fans for years and youve happily stood by and taken the dirty money. Banners have been in grounds for years, especially in main land Europe, berating the likes of Fifa and greedy owners, you'd think it had only just happened the way the likes of Neville were banging on. The same Neville trying to buy success with those very millions now. I saw a piece by Kieran Maguire where Man Utd had paid out £837million in interest payments alone since 2006, before that the club had money in the bank and was self sufficient. The game of football is beautiful in its simplicity, the business of it is corrupted to high hell.
     
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  4. Faithful Bantam

    Faithful Bantam Squad Player

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    True, but they should know much, much better. The European Cup is interwoven into the fabric of that club. They blazed the trail of joining that tournament against the will of the FA. The Munich Air Disaster - this action spits on the history of the club. Its disgraceful. And who decided that Arsenal and Spurs should have a seat at the f**king table?! Its madness.

    The value of the German Club ownership model showing through again, because it prevents them from being able to get drawn into this sort of thing. We need exactly the same thing here.
     
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  5. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    Can't do we sold out years ago. Spurs are a great example of what football has turned into. Season tickets approaching £1500 for a team that had no intention of winning anything. A shiny new stadium bringing in millions, those very millions going to players and shareholders. No longer the game of the masses, at the top level turning into an elitist plaything like golf and formula 1. It's why clubs in Germany like RB Leipzig are so despised, they stand for everything wrong with football.
     
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  6. Bronco

    Bronco Star Player
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    I'd think with the teams mentioned talks have been on going for a while and what would be required with regards the legal/illegal consequences, when a company like JP Morgan's get involved they will have taken legal advice about the consequences.
     
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  7. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    I would suggest that TV companies have had input into the make up so have included Arsenal and Spurs
     
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  8. How

    How Knows Football
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    Of course but think Uefa banking on larger tv contracts due to more games etc.
    Amazon will try this time I imagine for example
     
  9. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
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    Fans are a nuisance to these clubs, they just want worldwide tv money.......
     
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  10. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
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    I agree. Football as we know it now is nothing without TV broadcasters, both domestically and globally. I'd be shocked if the likes of Sky and BT and more than likely CBS, Amazon and Netflix haven't been involved in some discussions. They provide the football sector especially at the highest levels with most of their revenues. The interesting thing is they are all keeping their heads down at the moment!
     
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  11. Faithful Bantam

    Faithful Bantam Squad Player

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    The irony is, the PL has enabled and welcome these Billionaire owners coming into the game. And its come home to roost.
     
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  12. PlatinumChaosX

    PlatinumChaosX Squad Player
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    Time to kick these so called big six out of the football league.

    Absolute shambles this is, like think of City, when we got to the League Cup final, had we of beaten Swansea we would of been in Europe. They're trying to take that dream away from clubs like ours.

    My Dad is from Bradford, it's how I grew up watching Bradford City, but my brothers (who are technically my half brothers) have a different Dad to me and they're all United fans, they are really not happy with this.

    I mean, what are these clubs smoking ahaha?!

    I think parliament need to pass a law that prohibits these clubs playing football in England if they slap football governance in this manner? Surely the government can step in and tell these clubs that they can't legally play football in the UK if they're willing to do this?

    I really hope the FA kick them out of the football league, especially seeing as Manchester United has this morning stepped down from the ECA.

    LOL, I guess all the FC United fans had it right years ago when they formed FC United of Manchester.

    Bottom line is, punishment needs to happen now, keep Sheffield United in the Premier League, get up a few more Championship clubs up, but get United, Liverpool, Man City, Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea OUT OF THE FOOTBALL PYRAMID RIGHT NOW!! Stop them playing football in the UK, cripple their finances, teach them HARD lessons and show them they can't bully our beautiful game!!! We invented football, we set the standard for football governence and tradition. Your Jamie Vardy's and Calvert Lewin's won't be able to flourish with a stupid European Super League!

    The English football pyramid is the envy of sports all over the world, they don't have this sort of thing in American Soccer leagues, look at American sports in general? Do you see a pyramid in the NFL or NBA? Do you see relegations happen the way they do here?

    NO.... you see an Eastern Conference and a Western Conference and then see a domestic Superbowl or NBA playoff. It's just not the same as what we have here in Europe in football, right now, Bradford could win the most magical cup, THE FA CUP and then head to Europe, win the Europa League and get into the Champions League without having to get in the Premier League, sure it's a pipe dream, but it's our pipe dream and they wanna take that away from us.

    It's no coincidence this is being banked rolled by an American bank. Also look at the Spanish pyramid with teams like Barcelona B, it's no wonder some of these Spanish clubs want to do it, they don't care about their own football pyramid and never had.

    STOP TRYING TO AMERICANIZE OUR BEAUTIFUL GAME, JP MORGAN CAN EFF OFF BACK TO THE USA!!

    EDIT:
    On Sky Sport News right now, the owners of these clubs are delighted with this, maximizing their profits is more important than the overall welfare of the game.

    This whole thing is American Capitalism at it's finest. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

    The government need to step in and stop JP Morgan operating any sort of banking in the UK, put sanctions on JP Morgan too!!
     
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  13. andyc

    andyc Impact Sub
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    Wait until the fixtures for this season are completed, to full-fill the sky requirements, then deducts enough points to relegate all six teams, for gross miss conduct and bringing the game into disrepute. Also tell them they cannot compete in a euro super league in this country and get the government onboard , to bring it into law.
    This is nothing to do with football and its history and passions. Just wealthy men , trying to line their pockets, at the expense of
    fellow football, clubs. I am fuming.
     
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  14. Bronco

    Bronco Star Player
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    Get off the fence @PlatinumChaosX@PlatinumChaosX ;).
     
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  15. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    What I think a lot of people who are getting up in arms don't realise is just how bad the new CL reform is for the majority of top teams and in turn the top leagues. And UEFA with support from the FA's of these countries and the Leagues are just running rough shot over the clubs to push the changes ignoring the clubs.

    For anyone who hasn't been paying attention because CL football doesn't really impact City, UEFA's initial proposal was for groups to be made up of 8 teams. Every team would play twice meaning 14 matches up from the current 6. It was also adding a couple more Knockout rounds. And basically, no one in the CL group stage would drop out of European football. Some clubs would go into a 2 legged playoff with the winners going into the knockout and everyone else would drop into an expanded Europa League with more matches OR into the new 3rd Tier European competition. Basically, it was adding a crazy number of extra games and it was being talked as a 'First step' with rumours being that the aim was to have teams playing CL matches every midweek outside international breaks from August to around Feb when it would then enter knockouts going all the way to May.

    The only big teams in favour of this were Bayern and PSG and you know the reason for this? It's because they play in tin-pot leagues that these teams can basically walk even if they have to put out weakened teams in some of the league matches. Just look at PSG this season, they have lost eight matches and are just a single point from the top. Compare that to the PL and Leicester have lost 9 and are ten points away from second, west ham have lost 9 and are Eleven points away from second, Chelsea has lost 7 and are twelve points away from second and Liverpool 9 and are Fourteen behind second. And that's with United in second being Eight points away from City. It highlights how weak the French League is where they can lose so many and be a point away from the top. So them and Bayern can play weaker sides in the league to favour the CL and still qualify for next season CL and most likely win the league. PL clubs can't do that. If United played a totally rotated 11 around CL games the quality is such that they wouldn't be top 4.

    It took the threat of a super league to get that taken off the table but the new compromise isn't much better. Its's now groups of 6 meaning 10 games and you aren't put in groups, everyone is in one table but it uses the swiss model where you only play 5 of the teams in home and away matches which decides the table and then the top teams go into the playoffs. It's a ridiculous and confusing system. It adds 4 more games to the groups, it doesn't add any more knocks thankfully

    That's still 4 games to fit into an already packed schedule. Made worse with FIFA wanting to extend the world cup further, UEFA wanting to do the same with the Euro's, talk that FIFA want to add a World Nations League alongside continental ones that Europe and some others have introduced and the revamped Club World Cup that's going to be much bigger. It almost certainly means scrapping the League Cup which as you lot know may be fairly insignificant for PL clubs but the money from that can be major for clubs like Bradford and even then as PL clubs often play second-string teams until the semi's it doesn't help all that much so most its still likely to need heavily rotated teams in some league matches, especially as the yoyo clubs in the PL refuse to ratify the original PL plan of dropping to 18 clubs or other things like to allow an increase in sub numbers which would allow teams to manage fatigue better.

    And the problem is does adding more teams make it more appealing. Do you think a PL jumping back to 22 teams get better if those 2 teams are say Wigan and Forest Green over say the likes of Derby, Nottingham Forest, Birmingham City, Sheffield Wed etc basically teams with heritage and a fanbase. Most PL teams (bar city) sell out their CL games no matter who they play but how far do you dilute the quality until you get the kind of attendance these same clubs get for some league cup matches? As the extra value for the clubs is largely based on the idea you get more matches if you now have 2 matches only generating 1 match worth of income are clubs better off. And yes they have a chance of more prize money as there is extra matches to get the draw or win bonus BUT is that enough to risk finishing lower in the PL and losing money and maybe not making it CL the next season? It's good for UEFA because they get their cut from 100 extra matches and its good for the these teams that now get into it but seeing as the revenue is pretty much all generated by having the big names in it they are bringing the value but finding their share shrinking.

    So while the governing bodies are all basically colluding to push through changes that benefit them (And Germany and France) and not giving a toss about the club's opinions this threat really is the only card they have to play to try and stop something from being forced through. After all its highly unlikely to actually happens everyone loses something if it did. We will get something that all parties can basically agree on
     
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  16. Faithful Bantam

    Faithful Bantam Squad Player

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    Do the PL have the balls to boot these teams out? It'll cost them a shedload. However, it does present an opportunity for huge reform in the game. It won't be as lucrative, but it could take the game back to something like its roots and 'return it to the people'.

    This is happening. The clubs are clearly braced for, and willing to take on, the worst case scenarios that might play out.
     
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  17. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    The thing is this would actually see City get more money also. The proposed solidarity payment is over 4 times higher than the solidarity payments UEFA currently pay and without as much red tape (UEFA's only gets paid to countries who don't have a team in the group stages of CL or EL and their FA's then distribute it. This actually means the countries of the clubs who basically generate most of the money for UEFA don't see a penny to support their game. The ESL solidarity payment apparently has a good amount ringfenced for the countries of the founding teams and the countries of the 5 who qualify and then the rest gets split between all other UEFA countries)
     
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  18. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
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    The PL clubs had a great opportunity last autumn to restructure the game when Liverpool and Man U proposed their Project Big Picture. The implications would have been felt largely by middle to lower level PL clubs and in particular by relegated PL clubs by a major restructuring in the parachute payments system. The idea of a relegated PL club receiving over £170mill as the price of failure would be a thing of the past. The winners would have been EFL clubs who would have taken a bigger share of the Sky solidarity payments. Unfortunately for their own greed, the PL clubs (including all of the middle to lower level ones) turned down the proposal. Had they agreed to it as a means of strengthening the current pyramid, it might have put domestic football onto a more sustainable basis and possibly headed off the heavy-handed salary cap in the lower leagues. But once again self-interest was what took precedence.
     
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  19. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    As I said at the time that's been the problem with the PL. The initial idea always was for an 18 club league, how to do that though wasn't part of the formal structure, it was something they decided to leave to decide later but then the number of votes to get things passed ended up being a problem. The only way to get it down to 20 was bringing in parachute payments and it created a situation now where we have yoyo clubs as a result of these payments who when they are in the PL will vote down anything which might actually improve the English setup but might hinder them, this has included multiple proposals to increase solidarity payments over the years. When they do agree to things it's usually just minor things and usually requires a parachute payment increase.

    And that's the thing its easy to make the big clubs out to be the bad guys and sure there is always an element of self-interest but its also often looking at making the product more appealing which is better for everyone. The clubs voting things down that get seen as heroes are often the ones who actually dilute the product to serve their self-interest.

    It's like with the CL reforms, it's all about adding more and more clubs to European competitions based on a quantity over quality basis. They may add 100 more matches but the TV and sponsorship deals wont increase by the equivalent of 100 matches as let's be honest people aren't tuning in to watch matches like Dundalk vs Ki or lech Poznan vs Charleroi or Bode vs Zalgiris etc. If a club wins all their matches in the new system then sure they will get more than winning all their matches in the current one but it will be less per match. And there is a real risk of devaluing matches and seeing attendances drop as well. UEFA should be looking to make it a stronger product not a weaker one while still giving some smaller teams a chance to earn their place
     
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  20. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    No as they lose over half their TV audience and hence devalues their deal. maybe even more if these 6 then create a rival league of those 6 and invite some of the other big appeal clubs, including some of the fallen giants and maybe even Rangers and Celtic which would be way more appealing to TV audiences and hence broadcasters than a league with Brighton vs Burnley
     
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